SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT

by Sabine 129 Replies latest social current

  • morrisamb
    morrisamb

    What a tagedy! Unfortunately all too familiar...

    I remember an Elder telling me when I confided that I had been suicidal: Suicide is worse than murder. We argued a bit, but he WAS the Elder, I was a teenager. I actually was on the ball enough to realize that this guy was just adding one more guilt trip on me.

    When my (then teenage) brother swallowed a bottle of pills in a suicide attempt a couple of weeks after being dissasociated, no one sent cards or visited him in the hospital except us. The whole experience was surreal, because in some ways, it was like my brother was someone who didn't exist anymore to our whole peer system (the Witnesses). We didn't discuss our feelings with anyone. I remember regular meeting attendance was more important than dealing with the situation. Instead of asking why did my brother reach this point, it was more like, "no wonder" "How could he do this to us?"

    I think this forum is a wonderful place for people who feel isolated and need to reach out and talk to others who can understand their feelings.

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Where is the news story on this? I've been everywhere looking for something. Yet, nothing. Why?

    I'm supposing I'll have to call Woodinville news press to find out WHO COVERED THIS NEWS ITEM.

    sKally

    Do you not believe this took place?

    Edited by - Billygoat on 24 June 2002 10:50:50

  • jack2
    jack2

    Sabine, thank you for reporting this tragic story.....and also, I extend my heartfelt condolences to you over the loss of your daughter.

    (((((((((((((Sabine))))))))))))))

    Take care, jack

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Seaken2001 asked, "Nathan, If I'm not mistaken Woodinville is in King County. Why are the Snohomish police involved? I would check with the ME in King County. Unless the Kingdom Hall is over the border. I don't know where the hall is, so that may be it."

    You are absolutely correct - Woodinville is far enough north that the Kingdom Hall lies just over the Snohomish County line - one side of the street is King County and the other side is Snohomish County.

    It took a couple of phone calls to get the information I got, I didn't just pull it out of my ear.

    For more information about the forensic techniques I used in uncovering the information, be sure to watch C.S.I. on CBS-TV Thursday evening. Check your local listings for times.

    Edited by - Nathan Natas on 24 June 2002 18:27:31

    Edited by - Nathan Natas on 24 June 2002 18:29:6

  • sf
    sf

    "Do you not believe this took place?"

    Andee, please.

    A man is found dead in a parking lot (whether suicide, homicide, natural causes) and there's NO REPORT, anywhere? What about an obit?

    My quest(ions) and remarks, as you pointed out, stand.

    sKally

  • armchair_detective
    armchair_detective

    Hi,

    My condolences go out to those touched by this tragedy, (which I know includes an extensive list of ppl who didn't personally know this poor kid) Suicide in "Jehovah's Kingdom" is just another ugly little blemish on an otherwise *shiny, happy people face.* They don't worry because as time passes, it goes away, and they can righteously forget about the person because, after all, they just sinned against Jehovah by committing suicide. It's hard to not boil over something like this. When I stop and think with my old, long-dumped-but-not-forgotten 'JW ears,' I can clearly hear the cool tones in their voices in service: "He was disfellowshipped...he strayed away from Jehovah," and one of my all-time favorites, "This is what happens when you leave the flock." No death is in vain, no loss goes without touching SOMEONE, and I do hope this boy's death struck horror in the hearts of those who saw his lifeless body. I hope that it started a small flame of doubt that will eventually become a burning fire that will lead them out. To many of them, he was already dead in their eyes, and I know from personal experience that the cool, disdainful atmosphere towards this tragedy will leave the less emotionally shriveled members shaken and stirred. It still horrifies me to remember how conveniently detached they become when dealing with a situation like this, and as a teen pioneer in the late 80's, I was very shaken by the suicide of an old family friend, and angered by the reaction to it. In Keizer, Oregon (suburb of Salem) Ernesto (Ernie) Miranda tried desparately to get a meeting with elders after a Sunday meeting back in 1989-1990 after the WT study. He was refused, though everyone knew how anguished he was over his wife's demand for a divorce. Instead of meeting with him, the elders managed to brush him aside because they had better things to do ( big volleyball games and barbecues to attend!!) During the time a meeting could have been going on to work something out with this man in despair, (which would have done more damage than good anyway) Ernie sat at Bush Park on the other side of Salem and put a gun to his mouth in his car. A few people were a little disturbed by it, but after all, his wife was just studying and he himself was "just" a regular, never a servant or pioneer, his kids didn't get seriously involved, so really, who should grieve for a man who just sinned against Jehovah?

    Matthew 7:15-16; "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"......

    Colossians 3:12-14; ;"So as to those who have been chosen of God,
    holy and beloved, put on a heart of *compassion,* kindness, humility,
    gentleness and patience: bearing with one another, and forgiving each
    other, whoever has a complaint against another, just as the Lord
    forgave you, so also should you. Beyond all things put on *LOVE* which
    is the perfect bond of unity."


    Our Lord Jesus possesses more love and compassion for the hurting and
    lost than a hundred pious elders and pioneers ever will, and He knows
    these people's hearts better than anyone. He commands us to love one
    another and show compassion towards the hurting and oppressed, and we
    see in vivid, gruesome detail just how lacking the Watchtower and it's
    monochromatic followers are in this department. Compassion is
    selective, judgement is abundant. There's a place for those who show
    hatred instead of love, arrogance instead of humility, and that place
    is not in a Paradise earth or in Heaven.

    Meghan

  • mrs rocky2
    mrs rocky2

    Hello armchair_detective,

    Your post reminded me of how easy it is for rank and file to easily dismiss what they see as weaker ones. Makes me think of James 2:1-4: "My brothers you are not holding the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, our glory with acts of favoritism, are you? For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in splendid clothing enters into a gathering of you but a poor man in filthy clothing also enters yet you look with favor upon the one wearing the splendid clothing and say: "You take this seat here in a fine place" and you say to the poor one: "You keep standing," or: "Take that seat there under my footstool" you have class distinctions among yourselfs and you have become judges rendering wicked decisions, is that not so?" Wicked to the core. How can they ignore the damage they do when this shunning results in so many deaths? IMHO they really do not understand what self-sacrificing love is.

    Mrs R

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    sf said:

    A man is found dead in a parking lot (whether suicide, homicide, or natural causes) and there's NO REPORT. anywhere? What about an obit?

    My quest(ions) and remarks, as you pointed out, stand.

    I am in complete agreement with sKally. If a man is found dead in a public location, no matter the cause of death, it would surely be listed SOMEWHERE in the community media, whether on the local news, in a local magazine, or something of the sort.

    To compound upon that, if a person in the local community died, unless he was a homeless vagrant and no one knew of his existence and he had no family, there would be a published obituary.

    If there are NO facts, then I am forced to question the validity of this claim.

    This is NOT to attempt to discredit any individuals, or to be heartless and be perceived as someone with no compassion. I simply require facts and am apprehensive to offer support to something that seems questionable to say the least.

    Besides, any posters who have spent any tenure on this board know full well that we have had many cases of individuals posting stories which are contrived to incite emotion but possess no truth whatsoever.

    As sKally stated so precisely.. MY comments stand.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 25 June 2002 2:12:54

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    sKally and Reborn -

    What prevents you from getting on the phone and calling the Snohomish County WA Police to confirm that the events described took place on Saturday, June 8 in the parking lot of the Woodinville Kindgdom Hall?

    It's easier for you both to sit on your butts and question the motives of the several long-time posters here who have in various ways authenticated this story, isn't it?

  • armchair_detective
    armchair_detective

    There's a quick way to put an end to the banter from those ignorant enough to believe this

    suicide was fabricated. I'm not "Armchair Detective" for nothing and there are ways to hunt down the specifics on the internet, right down to getting ahold proof of his death certificate. I have several options that can give me valid proof by the end of tomorrow, (depending on how fast I can work) if I can just have a last name, first name if possible. You can email any private information to me at [email protected] if you'd like Sabine. Newspapers aren't the be-all and end-all of the information highway

    God bless,

    Meghan

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