by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
So Instead of defending Islam-Tootired
I am not defending Islam, nowhere on this thread have I defended it. I am saying all Muslims are individuals and many just want a peaceful life but are trapped in a religion they were born into. Islam is interpreted in different ways all over the globe by Muslim sects and by non Muslims, some interpretations are violent and harmful, many just seek peace.
Kate xx
Kate that last point was not directed at you, I get what you're saying, it's more for posters like Frazzled.
@KateWild - your last post makes a good point and I cannot disagree with it. This makes a good starting place for serious attempt at Islamic reform.
@Frazzled - I realise I'm starting to become a pain in the @$$ again, but nevermind: in your opinion, is Islam faultless?
I see all muslims as diverse, ranging from the majority who are peace loving to the extremists who are not. It seems to me to be the same as amongst christian religions. The majority of christians are peace loving people but there are some factions like the Westboro baptists who are hateful, or factions of the catholic IRA who became terrorists.
I have met few muslims but the ones I have, were very kind and hospitable. I think the majority, especially in this country (UK) are sickened by the extremism taking place amongst their youth. Like christians who interpret the bible in many dfferent ways it seems that muslims interpret their Koran in many different ways too.
I think it's wrong to generalise and lump every muslim under the same banner of violence and hatred that's taking place in Syria/Iraq at the moment. There was one act of grisly violence in Oklahoma... what about all the shootings that have taken place in the US by people who are not muslims. What about them?
This makes a good starting place for serious attempt at Islamic reform.-LUHE
Islamic reform has been taking place in the west for over 30 yrs. Some sects have also got stricter in the last 30 yrs. The whole of Islam will not reform in the next few years but many Muslims will practice in a more liberal way as the extreme sects promote violence.
Kate xx
'Islamic reform has been taking place in the west for over 30 yrs' - I disagree.
Integration of muslims has been attempted in the west for over 30 yrs. Any reasonable, polite criticism of Islam has been verboten for authorities and mainstream politicians in that timeframe.
I seem to remember channel 4's documentary of Islam and Muhammad was shelved due to the documentary's disagreeing with muslims on the start of the religion and Muhammad's revelations.
I cannot help but see a great interconnectedness (is that a word? if not, it should be) between uncontrolled immigration, bovine promotion of multiculturalism and fear of offending minorities. It has been disastrous for the UK.
tootired2care - Assuyuti was a respected Egyptian Islamic scholar writing IN THE 15TH CENTURY. I admit I don't know enough to know how widely accepted his views are today but the extract I posted above from the Islamic Bulletin is not consistent with what you posted from Assuyuti. My view, to be very clear, is that fanaticism is the problem, not Islam. I accept that the Quran gives the fanatics ammunition but it also gives the opponents of fanaticism ammunition. My argument throughout this post has been - don't smear Islam and Muslims in general with the crimes of the Fanatics and by demonising mainstream Islam you are aiding and abetting fanaticism.
LUHE - you asked for my views on Islam suggesting that I thought it might be perfect. You are very wrong. I believe that like every religion, Islam is a flawed belief system (I expressed this earlier in the thread) because faith acts as a deterrent to critical thinking and causes believers to think they alone have the answers to life's key questions. Also, as I have expressed earlier, as many of the societies in which Islam is the dominant religion are under-developed and education levels are poor, the Muslims in those countries engage in cultural practices in the name of Islam which are barbaric or at least inconsistent with a modern liberal society and they can be intolerant and bigoted towards non-believers and the West. But I tolerate Islam as a belief system and reject simplistic notions that you can tar Muslims with the same brush. Because of its diversity of belief and interpretation I would say that Islam is not as abhorrent as the WBTS cult.
I see all muslims as diverse, ranging from the majority who are peace loving to the extremists who are not. It seems to me to be the same as amongst christian religions. The majority of christians are peace loving people but there are some factions like the Westboro baptists who are hateful, or factions of the catholic IRA who became terrorists.
What proportion copmpared to islamists + islamic terrorists?
I have met few muslims but the ones I have, were very kind and hospitable. I think the majority, especially in this country (UK) are sickened by the extremism taking place amongst their youth. Like christians who interpret the bible in many dfferent ways it seems that muslims interpret their Koran in many different ways too.
Do they? Then why aren't we hearing that? Or is it just suppostion?
I think it's wrong to generalise and lump every muslim under the same banner of violence and hatred that's taking place in Syria/Iraq at the moment. There was one act of grisly violence in Oklahoma... what about all the shootings that have taken place in the US by people who are not muslims. What about them?
No one is doing that. I'm saying they should want to separate themselves more clealy which includes putting an end to including and repeating hateful commandments as being the word of god as their current beliefs.
Apparently though, to some, this is a bad thing.
@Frazzled - thank you for fully answering my question and putting me right.
I, too, tolerate Islam and am doing my best to avoid tarring all muslims with the same brush.
'I would say that Islam is not as abhorrent as the WBTS cult'
Surely the worst of Islam is worse than the worst of the WBTS?
I don't know how anyone can defend islam but criticise the WTS - the WTS pale in comparison.
We have first hand experience of the effects that a 'mild cult' like the WTS can have on people and families, it's incredible to imagine that islam doesn't have a bigger negative effect on many more people.
I guess they all want and fully support the life they have eh?
