Great points to ponder!
Great points to ponder!
I have 7 kids. They are all grown now, of course.
I raised 3 of them by myself when their mom died. They were 13, 11, 9 at the time.
I "tried" spanking two of them once and I cried so hard they tried to console me. I'm not kidding.
I loved them too much to physically hurt them. When they saw how upset the incident made me--that it had driven me to THAT . . .
well, that was the only time.
My kids--not one of them, has been in trouble with the law or with drugs or the usual stuff.
I don't take credit for their "goodness." We were all pulling together to make a life together. We focused on what was important
for the family rather than for ourselves.
Not one of my kids is religious. In fact, three of them are still angry that religion drove their mother to an early grave.
Is it possible to hit your kids and not be a monster? Yes, but there are--I sincerely believe--only ALTERNATIVES if you bother to look for them.
If you've been taught "the Rod" of discipline is God-approved, well--it makes you shrug off those other methods.
I have to tell you, I think RELIGION is responsible for a lot of asshole parents who drive their kids out of the house and into dysfuctional lives.
That's my opinion.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
I do agree that in most cases, you can educate your kids without spanking, however, I can actually remember when I was a 6 or 7 year old kid and I can honestly tell you that sometimes, I didn't give a F**K about all my dad said until he pulled out is buckle.
And yes, he was explaining stuff, taking away toys, putting me in the corner... some days, I swear, the only thing that stopped me was my Dad's buckle.
Today, I don't think the same and comparing a kid to an adult is a false analogy. As a kid, I destroyed properties, played endless pranks, transpassed every where I could, lied, cheeted and beat up other kids. In the end, I was conciously doing these things as I knew all would be forgotten by law as long as I was under 16.
But before I could actually go on with my evil plan, my dad gave me a well deserved beeting (on my bum only) of a life time. You know what? It saved me. I stopped. I had realized that for my dad to respond to my actions with such force, I had gone to far. Especialy that he hit me for things that I had done while he was not aware of all the other things I did ...
If it had not been for my Dad hitting me like he did, I honestly believe I would have become a criminal, JW or not.
Terry: I agree with you that " RELIGION is responsible for a lot of asshole parents who drive their kids out of the house and into dysfuctional lives."
I believe that throwing your kid out is basically quitting up on them.
Terry - how can you say Jesus is a good example here? Punishments he mentions are cutting people in pieces, throwing them into the sea with rocks round their necks, sending them to hell, terrorising them with fancy fire works in the sky, burning them in a furnace....
If your boss spanked you whenever you did not do as he said you would call the police. So why is it considered acceptable to hit a small defenseless child?
I don't think this is a good analogy. The idea behind spanking is that it serves as an adjustment/punishment for someone who you cannot reason with. When someone grows up, you should (hopefully) either reason with that person or give them a punishment that they will understand.
I was spanked many times, many unecessarily even when I was 13. That didn't need to be. I was grown enough that someone could reason with me. But when you are 2 or 3 years old and you don't respond to anything else, perhaps there is a place for a little slap on the butt, not to inflict pain, but to reinforce the fact that a kid should recognize that someone has authority over them.
The idea behind spanking is that it serves as an adjustment/punishment for someone who you cannot reason with - redvip2000
So does that include an adult with learning difficulties?
------- If your boss spanked you whenever you did not do as he said you would call the police. --------
i can't fire my kids. These are two completely different situations. Until I had my own kids I could never understand this debate. I now fully understand it. that's all I am going to say
I remember a time when my youngest sister (about 8 years old) got into trouble with my mom. I dont remember what for but mom bent her over the bed and gave her 3 quick swats with a belt. She turned around and suppressing the urge to cry looked up at mom and said, "That didnt hurt" in as defiant a tone as possible.
I remember thinking oh crap she is toast. Mom looked at her and said....."this one will"! I should have gotten the butter ready!
DesirousOfChange quoted me: ""the cops will" No they won't; at least they're not supposed to."
and then commented:
Some of you folks are so naive. It's like you are out of touch with reality. Oh........typical isolated JW.
That's evidently what Michael Brown had been told.
Try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B_yw1iYKpA
First, are you calling me a "typical isolated JW"? How the hell would you be able to so confidently call me such judging from a few words of mine? I'm not typical, I'm not isolated, and I'm no more JW than you are. I'm also not naive. Now leave off the logically fallacious argumentum ad hominem.
Some of you folks so lack comprehension. So you quote the Michael Brown case to make your point, eh? Well, look back and see what you correctly quoted me as saying; I said cops are "not supposed to" beat, etc. under normal disciplinary circumstances. Of course some do, but they're not supposed to. You do realize that the case you quoted is not a typical case of a cop's disciplining an offender, don't you? You do realize that the case caused a national uproar, don't you? Or are you so isolated and naive that you don't know that?
Yeah, consider the Michael Brown case. If Michael Brown had surrendered, then the cop was wrong and should be punished. So that case has no application to the concept of spanking children. If Michael Brown was wrong and was attacking the cop in a life-threatening manner, then the cop was justified, but the case still would have no application to the issue of spanking children. Most cases of child spanking don't involve a threat to the life of the spanking parent. You are referring to extreme cases. If cops were allowed to legally spank or inflict punishment on offenders such as speeders, then the situation would be applicable. But cops are not supposed to inflict physical punishment under normal disciplinary circumstances.