X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers 169 Replies latest jw friends

mouthy

Looking forward to seeing you at the Pa convention( & hearing you) neonmadman!!!It is the happiest time of my life when I am there.
I am a Christian- Was a JW from 1963-1997( when they gave me the left foot of fellowship) The Lord found this lost sheep at "Witness Now For Jesus" convention in 1989- My testimony is on the following link.
http://www.jwinfoline.com/Page/audio.htm Grace Gough
Unclepenn1

Wow, how wonderful to read about all the people on this board who know Jesus! What a shocker!! When I post things I feel somewhat like a renegade. I know others like me are out there, but most of the talk is just such indifference to God, that I often feel alone. I have never been a JW, but feel called by God to reach them for Jesus. I am most likely going out today to look for them. Prayers are appreciated. If there is anyone out there in the San Diego area, get a hold of me. I am looking for other believers to hook up with that are like minded in this area.
Mouthy, I can't believe that you are Grace Gough. I absolutely loved your testimony! It was so funny, I laughed, I cried, wow! It was one of the first ones I listened to when I found that site and I still remember it as being one of my favorites :) God is awesome amen?!
Adonai, I didnt realize how young you are. Praise God! At least the JW's didnt take your whole life like many.
Clash City, great post, thanks. One comment though, as far as salvation and the Trinity goes, I dont think totally grasping it is essential for salvation, in fact, when I was saved, I didnt even realize that Jesus was God. It took a little while for the Holy Spirit to reveal to me who Christ was, but I wouldnt say that you cannot be saved without knowing this, at least at first anyway. I do understand that you cannot be born again for a period of years and still not know who Christ is.
Also, MacArthur is reformed in his teachings, just not in his eschatology.
Love in the Lord,
Penn
clash_city_rockers

Mouthy,
It’s good to see that you go to the Witnesses for Jesus convention in Penn. My Friend Dwane Magniani (who was the guy who led me to Christ and of witness inc. fame) and Donald Nelson a man who was gracious to teach me chess and instruct me in patience goes to back east to those conferences.
Unclepenn1,
How did you come up with a name like that? How where saved by Christ? How long where you a JW? That’s cool not many x-dubs know who John McArthur is. He was one of my first Christian influences along with Walter Martin when I got saved. Are you from California?
One more thing
Unclepenn1 wrote: (snip)
Clash City, great post, thanks. One comment though, as far as salvation and the Trinity goes, I dont think totally grasping it is essential for salvation, in fact, when I was saved, I didnt even realize that Jesus was God. It took a little while for the Holy Spirit to reveal to me who Christ was, but I wouldnt say that you cannot be saved without knowing this, at least at first anyway. I do understand that you cannot be born again for a period of years and still not know who Christ is.
Also, MacArthur is reformed in his teachings, just not in his eschatology.
What I was trying to communicate is that if you read me correctly is that if one REJECTS the trinity then he or she can not be counted as a Christian. When one is save he may not understand the trinity, but yet is humbled by the Lord as to be open to be taught by his word. This includes the doctrine of the trinity. This means when one is saved he will sooner or later embrace the doctrine of the trinity, but never reject it. I apologies if I didn’t make this point clear.
Second point John McArthur is not reformed period this is true of his soteriology as well as his ecclesiology and eschatology. You can’t separate one from another in systematic theology they must go together and have a sense of internal consistency you don’t have to be Berkhof or Van Til to recognize this.
1. Our Lord is a God of order not confusion right? 1Cor. 14:33 (the context of 1Cor 14 refers to “peace” as in order as apposed to chaos and this text is speaking in regards to God’s character.)
2. Since God in his very nature and character is order and peace then his revelation in particular his special revelation (the bible) is a reflection of that character
3. We are to think God’s thoughts after him. Therefore we have to think them in an orderly way.
4. If all this is the case then it stands to reason that our reflection on God’s special revelation (our systematic theology and biblical theology) should reflect God’s character growing in us. Therefore our theology should be as consistent and orderly as possible and as much free of inconsistencies and dialectical tensions for this does not reflect God's orderly character.
Sadly this is not the case of John McArthur. Even though I am encouraged that my former mentor in one sense has embraced much of the Calvinistic system but not completely all points particularly, particular redemption and union with Christ and its hermeneutic of covenant theology. Unfortunately John is a Dispensationalist and Dispensationalism is not just some harmless eschatology. Dispensationalism is a hermeneutic that is a cancer to the doctrines of grace (Calvinism). This is not a blind charge. If you look at the official doctrinal statement of Grace Community Church of the Valley which John is a ruling elder (therefore he has to be in full agreement of the doctrinal statement) they do not affirm Particular redemption (what is otherwise called limited atonement) nor do they affirm union with Christ in their official doctrinal statement. Also they reject the reformed concept of Christian liberty and are some what legalistic and moralistic and do not have a reformed Christo-centric historic redemptive approach in preaching. For example when a text is preach out of the O.T. it’s more like “what is the moral of the story how can we live like David” instead of “looking at Christ redeeming his people in that era” thus text that teach and exhort personal application and holiness are now moralized and Christ and his grace are minimalized. A good example of good Christo-centric preaching that is Christ exulting not moralistic and yet full of application is:
1. Edmond Clowney -- The unfolding Mystery, Discovering Christ in the Old Testament
2. Gerhaudus Vos – Grace and Glory
Check it out for yourself
http://www.gracechurch.org/WhatWeTeach.asp
Another reason I have inside info on this is that it was Edmond Gruss (a prof. At the Masters College) who was the first to really challenge me on the lies of the WT and refered me to Dwane Magiani who led me to Christ. Later I attended the Masters College (a college in which John McArthur is the President of) I was a member Grace Community Church. Went to school with Melinda McArthur, Dr, McArthur’s daughter. Had dinner at John McArthur’s house in Canyon Country, CA (Santa Clarita area). Got to know the inside elders at the church like Phil Johnson (who does affirm publicly all 5 points of Calvinism John and the rest of the elders haven’t), Larry Pettagrew, Scott Ardavanis and Rick Carbanou who have left to pastor other churches now that’s going back a way. I know Clayton Erb the Music leader, Rick Holland and many others. So I do got an inside track on what John Teaches. Finally I asked John on the subject himself (is he a Calvinist), looking irritated at the question he said “I do not like labels such as Calvinist, I do affirm 4 of the 5, but on Limited atonement I will not commit either way I will not affirm nor deny” So you see my friend he is defiantly not reformed you can say he is Calvinistic to some degree.
Have a great Lord’s day.
jr
cellomould

cellomould
"You're crying 'why am I the victim?' when the culprit is YOU" Stevie Wonder
clash_city_rockers

lv4fer,
Wow, what a story. I will be praying for you. and remember whats Angie said and it is true "GOD is Great"
lv4fer, if you guys need to talk about any issues or have any question please feel free to ask or e-mail me.
blessings and we will be praying for you and remember God is gracious he will protect and feed all those who trust Him.
Gace and Peace,
jr
plmkrzy

Another reason I have inside info on this is that it was Edmond Gruss (a prof. At the Masters College) who was the first to really challenge me on the lies of the WT and refered me to Dwane Magiani who led me to Christ. Later I attended the Masters College (a college in which John McArthur is the President of) I was a member Grace Community Church. Went to school with Melinda McArthur, Dr, McArthur’s daughter. Had dinner at John McArthur’s house in Canyon Country, CA (Santa Clarita area). Got to know the inside elders at the church like Phil Johnson (who does affirm publicly all 5 points of Calvinism John and the rest of the elders haven’t),

I read through this post out of curriosity more then anything. I can not see myself ever joining another church of any kind for any reason what so ever. I am currious why anyone would. I am thinking that it must be out of a need to belong in a group. Like a security blanket.
I'm not knocking anyone who joins a religion just trying to figure out why.
I read the entire thread I qouted from above and I read the response of others here.
I can see that you have obviously been diving into a new way of interpreting the bible and doing your research regarding "people"
but that is exactly the red flags that "consistently" pop out at me within every sentance.
Rules, regulations, doctrin's and some grand poobah to lead you to christ.
This is no different then those who flocked to Ruthafford in the last Century.
Same thing. Different banner on the building.
I personally feel very fortunate that I haven't needed to go out and find some guy to lead me to Christ. I have IMHO a better relationship with Christ without men with titles getting in the way.
To those of you who do believe I hope someday you can find yourselves in a place in life where you don't feel compelled to follow the teachings of men.
clash_city_rockers

plmkrzy,
When people go to church it is because something profound has happen to them they where truelly changed by God. Comming to Christ is not about some grand pubah leading one to Christ. Man is not lead to Jesus by man but by God and the Holy Spirit, God uses his word to carry the saving messege and through the vehical of providence uses weak and feeble means(his church "men and women" in thier God given roles) to carry an all powerful life changing message. God not man, leads man to Jesus Christ.
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Another reason why you think this going to church thing is a bit odd and a message of redemption is silly is because you are unsaved and are going to parish in hell unless God has mercy on you and you repent of you sins and trust Christ.
1 Cor 2:14
14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned
2 Cor 2:15,16
15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task?
2 Cor 4:3,4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

But the good news is
Romans 3:21-31
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

cheers,
jr
LittleToe

Born and brought up a dub.
By the grace of God, converted (anointed) 28th June 2001, while a dub elder.
Taught by the Holy Spirit (including doctrines of Grace and Trinity).
Joined this site September 2001.
DA'ed January 6th 2002.
Started attending the Free Church of Scotland (reformed protestant / Calvinist tradition), although not yet a 5-point Calvinist.
Baptised 30th January 2002.
First took Communion in February, and many tims since.
Being a Christian involves a personal relationship with Christ, not a church.
Being born-again is essential.
It is all of grace (undeserved kindness) not works.
Attendance at church gives an opportuntity for worship of God and fellowship with your spiritual siblings.
It can be a stepping stone to finding Christ, but so often becomes a very slippery stone if it become the focus, rather than Christ.
Nice thread Clash.
Mouthy:
When is the PA conference?
I shall be attending the British version, in September, God willing.
gumby

Quote: "I figure that if true bible believing Christians pulled together for edification and fellowship on this board then the sky is the limit as far what the Lord will bless us in our efferts to bring Christ to this board".
Since I have been on this board.....there have always been Christians here. They leave. Remember REXB and others similar to him?
Many on this board will not be HELPED to come to CHRIST....why?
Because they don't believe he existed or feel he was just another HOLY MAN with a trumped up story behind him.
They look for evidence he existed and come up short handed.
They cannot make reason or logic out of the contents in the bible.
Many who WERE christian are no longerchristian after coming here because the logic of others makes more sense to them than does the bible.
Don't be too sure you will bring many to Christ here.
Start a thread on how many are no longer Christian AFTER coming to this board and see what you get.
I don't mean to discourage a noble attempt.....just calling it the way I see it.
Frenchy

ThiChi, No trinity no salvation. Because of the nature of the substatutionary atonement you cant have a salvation with out the trinity.
Ah, now that's what I miss so much. There's nothing like a good, old fashioned dogmatic statement with it's accompanying judgmental condemnation of all who do not agree to really make one run to the nearest church! Thank you for reminding us of how it still is.
+++ It doesn't matter how far you go, and how long you walk, if you travel in a circle you're going to keep coming back to the same places!+++ ..The French Knight

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

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