Jesus was a false prophet?

by opusdei1972 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Viviane,

    <<Which specific prophecy came true exactly as he said?>>

    Actually every last prediction (all these things) happened to Christ's own generation. Here is one specific item to consider:

    "...for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations..."

    "It is fitting to add to these accounts the true prediction of our Saviour in which he foretold these very events. His words are as follows: "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day; For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." The historian, reckoning the whole number of the slain, says that eleven hundred thousand persons perished by famine and sword, and that the rest of the rioters and robbers, being betrayed by each other after the taking of the city, were slain. But the tallest of the youths and those that were distinguished for beauty were preserved for the triumph. Of the rest of the multitude, those that were over seventeen years of age were sent as prisoners to labor in the works of Egypt, while still more were scattered through the provinces to meet their death in the theaters by the sword and by beasts. Those under seventeen years of age were carried away to be sold as slaves, and of these alone the number reached ninety thousand. These things took place in this manner in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, in accordance with the prophecies of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who by divine power saw them beforehand as if they were already present, and wept and mourned according to the statement of the holy evangelists, who give the very words which be uttered, when, as if addressing Jerusalem herself, he said: "If thou hadst known, even thou, in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a rampart about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall lay thee and thy children even with the ground." And then, as if speaking concerning the people, he says, "For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." And again: "When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Eusebius (Book III, Ch. VII)

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    All Jesus' words were written down way AFTER the event.

    They are Not prophecies, they record events already occured.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Phizzy,

    All Jesus' words were written down way AFTER the event. They are Not prophecies, they record events already occured.

    How do you know this?

    Do you know that there was a conspiracy among the gospel writers?

    Did they collectively take the time to make Jesus look like a great prophet?

    Wasn't fake reporting the miracles of Jesus enough to hoodwink the gullible?

    What was their motive?

    Can you provide support for your dismissal of the integrity of the gospel writers?

    Thanks,

    Vander

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    It is not simply a matter of "dismissing the Gospel writers" as though I should really believe what they have written , but I choose not to.

    It is a matter of fact that the earliest Gospel was written way after the time of Jesus, and is therefore simply a written record of oral tradition. And we know how unreliable oral tradition is, about as good as "Chinese Whispers".

    We have no way of knowing exactly what Jesus said. Add to that the agenda of the Gospel writers,i.e the furtherance of the Jesus cult, and you will see that we have a problem. (This is without going in to the total lack of Provenance for any of the extant Manuscripts).

    The events referred to in the words ascribed to him have already occured before the Gospel is written. You can make anybody appear to be a Prophet by that method.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Vanderhoven - Who do you think the gospel writers were?

    The one thing we know for a certainty is that they were not Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Phizzy, So you have concluded that the authors made up the gospels. For what reason/s? I have concluded that they are authentic. Why do you think most of the apostles went to their death preaching a lie they concocted?

    Cofty, The Olivet discourse is only found in the Synoptics. How do you know for certain that Matthew and Mark (apostles of the Lamb) and Luke the doctor, friend of both Paul and Theophilus, were not the authors of the gospels attributed to them?

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    So you have concluded that the authors made up the gospels

    Vanderhoven7, don't you think it's odd that the authors of the Gospels never identify themselves?

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    The gospel of Matthew is anonymous.

    Regarding Mark, also quoting Wikipedia:

    Scholars agree that the Gospel of Mark was not written by any of the Apostles, but by some insignificant figure in the early church. Notwithstanding its shortcomings, it was probably included in the Canon because the Early Church Fathers believed it was a reliable account of the life of Jesus of Nazareth.

    Eusebius, in his Church History records that the writer of this gospel was a man named Mark who was Peter’s interpreter. It was believed that his accounts of Jesus were historically accurate, but that there was some chronological distortion. It is further agreed that this gospel was originally composed in Koine Greek, near Rome. [11]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Source

    If those nearly contemporary to the events do not attribute these works to the apostles, who are we to do so?

  • givemejustalittlemoretime
    givemejustalittlemoretime

    The Mystery of God is being revealed to ALL. The unveiling is taking place as all those layers are stripped away. That mystery is Christ dwells in ALL

  • designs
    designs

    Jesus sided with the Romans, Jesus sided with the enemy. There were actual Jews who sold weapons of war to the Nazis.....

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