I know 2 of the Elders on the Ray Franz JC (page 8)

Giordano

Pat on the back for JJ you did what you could. Back when I left I did talk to a peer who had been a bible study...... he was already on his way out. My sister-in law needed to know why her sister and I left........... we talked many times and eventually she found TTATT. But she was ready to make a life change and just needed an honest conversation why remaining a JW...... felt so wrong to her. She finally got to a point where it felt right to leave.

I guess I had conversations with all of my JW childhood friends and some of the people I had served with about the questions I had. No one was interested in why I felt as I did nor did they have any real answers. Eventually you move on. If any got out I never heard as 50 years have passed.

At a certain point in time , like your 70 year old friend who is surround by his 3rd generation family it's not going to be worth it to rock that boat.

The worst luck is to still be a partial believer in a cause who can't change anything nor stop the harm that results. You can only vow to not encourage people to become a JW and offer support to those getting a raw deal.

Terry

Only just now (Monday 7-21) did I begin reading this thread.

What exactly is the controversy here? I think I missed it somehow.

Focus

Terry:

What exactly is the controversy here?

No controversy per se.

There's no secret as to how RF came to be DF. What JJ disclosed is Old Light, whether or not he had grasped that. The apostate community knew this three decades ago.

What, taking JJ at his word, is New Light is that one of the Filthy Swine Class who carried out the Spiritual Murder has admitted to what we knew happened anyway.

And later JJ revealed he has begun to atone for all his own appalling spiritual crimes. He carried out an act of repentance and contrition.

And that is good. Very good. Well done, JJ. But it is just a start to your rehabilitation and acceptance into the race of decent human beings. I am sure there were many more evil things that you did while in the Borg, were there not?

The following does not apply to JJ, who showed he has a heart:

So many ex-Elders of the Filth and ex-Filth Class here believe that when they leave the Borg, voluntarily or kicked out, that is some great achievement and that is commendable.

Absolutely not!

Only when they have gone around to all those ex-jWs they have personally wronged, and literally and figuratively licked their boots and begged for forgivance, would they have my forgiveness. Well, at least all those still living who they can reasonably find.

Even if they had acted in good faith, this action is necessary. Both for justice, compassion and for their own mental and spiritual healing.

One allows a grace period as their eyes gradually open to their own deep and heinous crimes. After this grace period of a few years, if they do not start the apologizing, I classify such unrepentant ex-Elders as Spiritual Pedophiles, and treat them with the respect they deserve.

I leave it to you to assess how much respect that is.

I am proud to say I have brought considerable misery into the lives of more than a few ex-Elders who did not repent, and who found that lists of their filthy spiritual crimes and lunacies while they were within the Borg were published in their local communities. Even merely along the lines of "This is what XYZ used to believe in, and punish others who stopped believing in ..." followed by a long list of WTS idiocies.

If one of these evil ones committed suicide as a result, I would laugh.

Vengeance is mine. In this, I have no sin, and I shall cast the first, the second and the last stone.

__

Focus

("I Disfellowshiped the G.B." Class)

joe134cd

I'm not doubting what your saying. You sort of wonder with having someone who was so young and probably inexperienced conduct a JC with a senior member of the GB (and was old enough to be their farther). Why Ray never made mention to the fact. To me that would be something pretty relevant. Another question. What ever happened to Renee Vasquez.

Dis-Member

I just want to change the focus back to French and Dibble.

I'm sure you do..

James Jackson

FOCUS: And that is good. Very good. Well done, JJ. But it is just a start to your rehabilitation and acceptance into the race of decent human beings. I am sure there were many more evil things that you did while in the Borg, were there not?

I do not know if this is a blanket statement, or directed at me.

I would say the things I have done would not be considered "Evil" by hardcore JW standards. I have never been disciplined by a JC in my theocratic life. You could say I have been a "Cowboy for the Truth", whatever that may be now. However, I have read many life stories( I started reading all the personal experiences since the begining of this website, up to page 423), and I think to myself, "I was one of those guys in some of these accounts", for which I am ashamed of now, but most in part because of my training from the Organiztion as an Elder.

One 18 year old girl(baptized), whose mother went crazy and kicked her out of the house for no reason, went to stay with some co-workers. She began to miss meetings, then stopped altogether. Fast foward 2 years later,she gets pregnant (not married)and long time Pioneer Older single Sister(Elderess), who had studied with the mother and child, goes balistic, demanding we officially DF her("We, the BOE, are ignoring her sin"). We caved to this older sister. The young girl was too embarrassed to meet with us, we DFed her.

It has been 5 years now. She works for a local grocery store and 2 years ago I went to her and apologized to her for being more concerned for the letter of the law, than the person themself. I further said, at a time she needed help, nobody was there to help her, for which I apologized for that too. She said all is good, she met and married a good man. Now, everytime I go to that store, she makes an effort to come say hi to me and my wife(even though she is DF), and I to her.

Terry

I too think about how Gung Ho I was in my "service" to the WTS slavemaster.

All of us brought to bear our natural talents, personality, conviction for purposes of persuasion.

I shudder to think who I may have sucked in whose lives were ruined.

Every day I try to do something, write something, saying something to counter-balance the harm I wrought while a JW.

I feel like I was in the slave trade and now I have to run the Underground Railway.

Nobody is keeping track but me.

I don't judge anybody but myself. I embrace heartily the premise of Judaism's Tikkun Olam: "Repair the world."

Bobcat

James Jackson:

I also remember having the soft bound elders booklets (three of them, index sized) in the late 80's. The ks-91 came out in, well . . . 91. It was hardbound. And it was in use until just recently with the ks-10 (11?). I don't know if there was a hardbound elders book previous to the late eighties.

Also, thanks for the story about the elders on RF's JC.

Bobcat

Focus

Every day I try to do something, write something, saying something to counter-balance the harm I wrought while a JW.

Commendations, Terry and JJ.

I contrast you with the evil of someone who, fully seeing the light, still encourages his loved ones to rot within the Borg... to go out infecting others, leading to deaths of children through the blood policy, pedophile rapes due to the two-witness rule, and much else aside.

These spiritual criminals are surely deserving of all they will get. Bloodguilty to me, with all that enables me to do in my own inimitable theocratic style.

__

Focus

("Contacts everywhere" Class)

Haupi33

Great share, thank you! I shared this with my ex-JW group on facebook. People need to know how the Society acts in particular situations where they want certain ones punished and out.

I know 2 of the Elders on the Ray Franz JC

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