Well James Jackson as far as this Organization goes anything is possible in regards to procedure manuals for Elders. There could have been 3 booklets in use for a period of time in between hardcover editions. In the late Summer of 1979 I was being considered by the Body of Elders to be appointed as an Elder and they wanted me for the position of Secretary. While still a Ministerial Servant I was given a HARDBOUND copy of the book and told to review it because I would 'need to understand policy' soon. I declined appointment and began my looooooooooooong fade. So as a matter of record, I have held no position in the Organization since that time. It seems odd to me that Wunce_wuz and I have the identical experience and you and Magnum have a different experience. Could it be possible that the hardcover text was kept in the 'elders room' at your hall and the 3 booklets were addendums to the original text? The reason that I bring this up is because 'facts' and 'real world experiences' sometimes are disregarded for the sake of a 'good story'.
I know 2 of the Elders on the Ray Franz JC
Thanks James. I have never said anything but not that it means much at all but I know Wesley Benner too he was the C O called in for the committee. He was a rude littlle guy when he wanted to be and very nice when he wanted to be. Not the best C O I ever came to know. Oh well means little but thought I woul join in.
I just want to change the focus back to French and Dibble.
When a Judicial Committee is formed, especially for a high profile man as Ray Franz, you are to pick your most experienced Elders, not 30ish young Elders. It just blows my and makes me suspect that the Society wanted to use virtually unknown men at the time and say "Look what these young men accomplished!".
I remember talking to Felix Parnell who was a longtime PO in West Gadsden,very qualified, for a time the Assembly Overseer(now deceased), was telling me( he had my wife and I over for a meal after the Public Talk), that him and Bobby Rogers, also very qualified, Assembly Overseer and RBC Chairman (PO in Scottsboro) were involved with the investigations that led to Ray Franz coming before the JC. So why were these highly qualified Elders not on the Judicial Committee? I wished I had paid more attenion at the time, He was in a mood to talk, but then, in the 90's, that kinda stuff did not interest me. I was young and in a JW bubble.
[quote] man (PO in Scottsboro) were involved with the investigations that led to Ray Franz coming before the JC. So why were these highly qualified Elders not on the Judicial Committee? [/quote]
The only reasons I can think of is A. They were easy to be programmed on fore-hand to handle as wished. B. The more experienced elders didn't like to burn their fingers on that case. C. The others didn't believe in having enough biblical reasons to start the case. D. They wanted to insult Ray.
I choose B
Me too, I wouldn't have done it and I was eager at the time, .....ashamed of my self now. But the insult could be the case as well, the final kick in the back.
Dis Member. Have you tried this appoach yourself or know of anyone that has, and were the results positive? I know what you're saying, and it would seem like the right thing to do...but..I really don't want to derail this thread, but feel that "response" is very relavant. I'd be looking for a favorable or positive response. It took knowledge, tact and other learned techniques to convince them to change and accept our theology and convert. That was the "prize" we sought. The difference now is, that they know you've defected in some way and they have been warned by the constant flow of information from the org and other friends, that you are to be held at a distance even if you haven't been DFd or DAd. Since I and others like me are interested in helping them see the real truth,.. knowledge, tact and technique are still good tools, and to be used to get positive results. Being abrupt and forthright may not get the desired response, in fact it will likely deepen their resolve. From my own experience, I would have put up a walled, immoveable, defense, had I been approached by one of my long time mentors intent on exposing "my beloved organization". Unfortunately we're in a delemma that is, to say the least, frustrating. Something has to set their alarm off, and to initiate that successfully is the technique I, for one, would welcome. I have literally hundreds of friends and at least 75 relatives involved with this organization and would like nothing more that to help them "see the light".
JJ is probably experiencing something similar. In my opinion, you can't just tell your wife that her new dress makes her butt look big. It may be true, but you won't get the desired response. Perhaps if you installed a 3 part, full length mirror, she would see it for herself. I'm hoping that mirror finds it's way into a few of those loved ones posession.
If the words can be pinned to him (two witnesses rule), I can cause the wheels to be set into motion which will have the disfellowshiper himself disfellowshiped.
Which would be poetic justice.
What justice is it if you use the same fear tactics against them? Does that not make YOU just as guilty? Who's deluded now?
"After my deletion ( in some respects a good thing, because the koolaid lost it's effect), I went to his home, stuck out hand and apologize to this man for all the hurt I caused him and his family. Then I went to his wife and his son and apologized to them. He gave me a big hug (I got emotional), thanked me and assured me everything is alright. He let my wife and I take him and his family out for a nice meal, Now I count him as one of my close friends.
I have serveral more of like experiences, but some may find this stuff boring." James Jackson
It takes large balls to admit your wrong especially when you've been contaminated in this filthy religion of hatred and over-righteousness. Thank you for apologizing to all the people you were part of ruining(but did you ruin them if they left the Organization?). If you helped them see the Watchtower's truth this is a lie, a sham they are going to accept your apology because you validated them! You still have to hunt down to apologize the others that could be stuck in the Watchtower's mire sitting at home kinda pissed off on getting a raw deal! You made friends for life by pummeling your pride, that's something the "Overly Righteous JWs Elders and Elderettes and Wannabee COs" seldomly do! Bravo James Jackson, you are not far from Eternal Life! I hope this debacle does not rob your faith in Jesus Christ, we need apologist like you who can help get more people out of the Organization in a private way.
Kudos to JJ for not only sharing, but also admiting wrong, making amends with people he felt he wronged, and then being open and honest about it.
I think those who for some reason felt the desire to wag their finger at the former elder, should probably remember we ALL here at one time were true believers, and probably did things we wish we could take back.