Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

by punkofnice 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • punkofnice

    I thought I'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.

    So. Did Jesus actually exist?

    Without using the Bible I'd like to see obvious proof.

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    Classic Roman writers tacitus, suetonius and pliny the younger mention him. Jesus is generally considered by scholars to have been an actual person whom they designate 'historical Jesus' rather than Jesus in the religious son of god sense. There is no doubt that gautama Siddhartha, Mohammed and other founders of world religions existed as far as I know. Joseph smith and Elvis will be just as mythical in 2000 years.

  • EndofMysteries

    The extant manuscripts of the writings of the 1st century Romano - Jewish historian Flavius Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity . [1] [2] Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews , written around 93–94 AD, includes two references to Jesus in Books 18 and 20 and a reference to John the Baptist in Book 18 . [1] [3]

  • paranoia agent
    paranoia agent

    How Jesus Became God by Bart Ehrman should be out in March this year, should be an interesting read.

  • notsurewheretogo

    Well He appeared in my waffle...does that count as proof?

  • RubaDub

    I saw this movie about Jesus around Easter-time called The Robe and that was enough proof for me.

    Rub a Dub


    Jesus was a genuine historical person. The Israelites were waiting for the promised Jewish saviour who would free Israel from Roman rule. They thought Jesus would do that and wanted to make him king. That is why he was tried for sedition. The Romans killed hundreds of thousands of Christians, usually torturing them to death.

    As the roman empire faded, it looked around for a religion to adopt that ticked all the right boxes. The Jewish religion with so many martyrs was ideal. Rome adopted the Jewish faith along with Christ and Christianity was established. The Holy Roman Empire was established. Suddenly, anyone who did not convert to Christianity was pagan.

    When secular Rome lost it power, the Holy Roman Empire survived as planned. The Vatican survives to this day as an untouchable, un-taxable power base. It is all a trick, because with Christ Jesus and his apostles dead, all power and glory went to the Holy Roman Empire.

    Oh I forget about God - so did the Romans!

  • humbled

    As Julia said, there are at least those three sources. He was a man the Romans killed.

    Look up Pliny the Younger's note to Trajan. It asked the emperor what to do with christians.

    Pliny describes torturing two slave women who were Christians to find out what the club was about. This is what he learned: They met in the mornings with others, encouraged one another not to lie, steal or commit adultery. They ate a simple meal together. Sang a song to Jesus.

    There were other writings, gospels of Jesus. But the "earthier" versions were destoyed as one sect of christianity led the field--they are considered heresies.

  • punkofnice

    So, are we talking about the Jesus as actually portrayed in the bible or 'A' Jesus or number of them around at that time?

  • jgnat

    I posted this before, 3rd century:


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