"Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

EdenOne

In a recent meeting with Elders, an argument was used to the effect that Jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the WTS must be that organization today, since God must be using one. Naturally, I know what arguments I've used to counter that argument. But I'm interested in hearing yours. Has God "always" used an organization? Must he use an organization? Does he need one?

(Don't waste your time trying to prove that the WTS isn't God's organization, that's not the main point here)

Eden

ilikecheese

When my boyfriend says something like that, I just ask him who his organization was for the nearly 2000 years between the deaths of the apostles and the start of JWdom.

I also think a good point is when Paul said, in one of his letters, that certain people were following Cephas, Apollo or him, when they should all just be following Christ. The whole point is following Jesus, not any men who tell you how to find him.

besty

Why did Russell not join that organization instead of starting a new one?

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php

jookbeard

I'd ask them to name them , if they are so convinced that there was an uninterupted line of faithful christians from the 1st century to the time of Russel , and that God has always had an earthly channel then simply name them, 99.9% of JW's wont be able to, if they cant name them then there cant have ever been a "channel" on Earth for over 2000 years and then there cant be one now.

The Searcher

Jesus said HE was our leader; Jesus said MY sheep know MY voice; Jesus said that THE SPIRIT would teach us all things - not an Org; Jesus said that we are ALL brothers.

Psalm 146:3 warns us not to put our trust in men for our salvation, and yet millions around the world base their hope of salvation on their LOYALTY & OBEDIENCE to either eight men in Brooklyn or one man in Rome!

If an "organization" was going to be used by God on earth, then Christ and the Bible writers really let everyone down by forgetting to mention the subject to us!

THE GLADIATOR

Who is this Jehovah that you talk so knowledgeably about?

The Hebrew desert god is only one amoung many hundreds of worthier gods that have been invented.

EdenOne

Great point, besty!

Eden

EdenOne

I also point out that, even in the days of the kingdom and priesthood of Israel, God was using prophets - not the structured "organization" - as God's communication channel. Even when the leadership was faithful. As in the days of King Josiah and high priest Hilkiah (prophetess Hulda and Jeremiah) and later with prophet Zachariah (Governor Zerubbabel and High Priest Joshua)

Eden

prologos

I would ask: is this organisation related to the "woman and her seed in Gen3:15?"------ wt writers: organisation is earthly part of the woman. --hm

in Gen 3:15 who was Jehovah talking to?------- the snake?---so:

you believe that there was a talking snake ?----

so:-- THAT is what your strong conviction about your organisation idea is is based on? a talking snake? have you ever seen, heard one?

tim hooper

Eden one - next time just ask the JW to refresh your memory as to exactly what the Bible says when it talks about an organization. Your JW will unhappily thumb through his Bible until it finally dawns on him that there is no mention at all in the Sriptures - not even the NWT - to an organisation of any sort.

"Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

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