The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

  • besty


    When I get a minute I will post a summary.

    pls do - it can be a keeper along the lines of common ancestry - maybe start a new thread with a reference back to this one

  • KateWild

    ahhh thanks caliber

  • Tiktaalik

    >>" oops I have been spelling Antropomorphism wrong."

    You still are. It's ANTHROPOMORPHISM.

    You are becoming a shrill troll, Kate.

  • KateWild


    That was a typo smarty pants. Many have supported my posts, if you think I am a shrill troll, then don't read me, the moderators don't agree with your point. Caliber loves me, and besty and his family are going to meet up with my family. You hardly ever post and your opinion of me is noted. But that all it is your opinion, you are welcome to it.

    Life would be boring without opposing views dont you think?

    This is my 2000thpost and I am here to help others and get help myself, I am not a troll at all. It has been fun debating and befriending other posters. We can be friends too if you like.

    Take care Tiktaalik I hope you view of me changes in time, love Sam xx

  • adamah

    FHN said- "Maybe man should consider not living so close to coast."

    OK, so let's chalk that up to just another permutation of the ol' favorite of apologetists everywhere, "blaming the victims"....

    Of course, these are often the same people who are completely unable to see that thinking until THEY are cast in the role of (or perceive themselves as) the victim, but it does no good, since they often only quickly forget it, anyway. For example, many see themselves as the victims of the JW practice of shunning, and THAT'S bad and not to be tolerated as it's inhuman and cruel; but a loss of 250k lives of loved ones, and the MAJOR disruption of others lives? Well, THAT'S different, since those greedy b-tards deserved it for living near the ocean (nevermind that many coastal towns economies are based on ocean fishing)!

    Is it asking too much for posters to stop to analyze what sort of fallacy they are thinking of committing BEFORE they serve a steaming pile of failed theodicy?

    Is it too much to consider adopting even a smatter of empathy for others, and not putting on cognitive blinders when it comes to defending YOUR God?

    I know, it's very hard to analyze what you're offering up when you're emotionally-invested in offering up a defense, but people really need to spend a moment thinking and analyzing what they're about to say, rather than simply spewing whatever first comes to minds and then forcing others to point out the problems. It's the old saying about giving a person a fish vs teaching them to fish" situation, except replace 'fishing' for 'thinking'.

    FHN said- Natural evil. So a tsunami is natural evil. Doesn't that personify the tsunami?

    Perhaps referring to 'natural disasters' would be less confusing for some, but the term used in theological discussions of theodicy is the 'problem of natural evil'.

    The problem for God is the Bible itself indicates that God expresses his Divine Will and acts via natural disasters: remember the ULTIMATE Tsunami ever, AKA Noah's Flood? God wiped out the lion's share of life on the Planet (except Noah and family, and a boatload of animals) via destruction by drowning, the same way 250k died in the tsunami. Hence God earned a well-deserved reputation for his willingness to kill humans via natural forces, and just to make the point, He followed up the Flood by destroying Sodom and Gomorrah with volcanic destruction, only a few chapters later in Genesis.

    So it's not exactly a secret to anyone who's actually read the Bible that God has a clearly-documented history in His Holy Book of expressing Divine displeasure with the sins of humans via natural disasters, and if God doesn't want humans to turn a jaundiced eye towards him as prime suspect #1, suspected of causing havok whenever a natural disaster kills humans, He probably should've thought of the unintended consequences of inspiring the authors of Genesis to make such braggadocious claims, in the first place.

    BTW, do I really need to point out that I'm an atheist, and this is exactly only ONE EXAMPLE of many of the kinds of 'continuity errors' found in the Bible, where the authors introduced one trait in the God character to solve one problem (eg in the Flood, they had a pre-existing Flood account from the Babylonians which allowed for the hero to assume authority to rule over his fellow man, and the writers of Genesis wanted to copy it), but they open up many other cans of worms in the process (the original account of the Flood story (Atrahasis) featured a pantheon of Gods, and only ONE wanted to carry out the Flood; however, forcing the pre-existing story to fit into the context of Jewish monotheism made Jehovah appear capricious and evil).


  • FlyingHighNow

    Adam, your long winded posts are too boring to read past the first two words. I'm not a bible person dahling, though I do find some wisdom in the book, from time to time. I caught the bible flood thingy as I skimmed down to the comment window.

  • cofty

    Actually FHN, and this doesn't come easily, Adam's previous post is excellent. Maybe if you made the effort to read more challenging things and reflect on them you would be less prone to making facile satatements like blaming tsunami victims for their own deaths.

  • humbled

    I recall a great account of some "primitives" surviving the tsunami. It is notable that they had resisted conversion to Christianity. Islanders who had become modern and Christian died.

    I'll find the link.

    Edit:Here it is--Survivors of the Tsunami/Cultural Survival

  • FlyingHighNow

    I'm glad you've at least enjoyed Kate's comments. She's giving you a run for your money.

  • tec

    It doesn't matter what possible answers Cofty and others like him get from others.

    The only answer that they want is a) God does not exist, or b) God is not loving (which is meant to lead back to a).

    That is their conclusion, and no other conclusion is acceptable.

    Never mind that those who are in Christ and God KNOW that this is not their Kingdom, know that this - death and suffering - is not how things were made and not how they will be at the renewal of all things. We KNOW that death and suffering is part of this life, and that this life as it is right now temporary. That any and all who are in the grave will receive a resurrection. Some to life, and some to judgment. People dying - for whatever reason, be it from man or from some natural event - doesn't mean life is not precious. The resurrection and life sent to us in Christ teaches us just the opposite. The truth taught to us is just the opposite, as we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE to give help, serve others, give to those in need, etc, etc.

    We were sold to death, yes... but not by God... God is the one who provided the way (Christ) for any and all to come back to Him, to the Garden (a spiritual home like the Kingdom that God is bringing FOR us) and to Life.

    He already acted.

    Such a promise that we may KNOW is true because we know Him who made the promise is true... grants hope, peace, joy, and love. All fruits of the Spirit.



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