Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist
by DS211 243 Replies latest jw friends
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adamah
Adam said- Of course, TEC FINALLY played her 'trump card' (at least, what she thinks of as her 'trump card', when everyone else might call it a 'chump card'), the one where she claims to possess TRUTH directly from Jesus; it was played to support the claim that God allowed evolution to be "baked into the cake" in Genesis.
TEC SAID- Not a trump card... or it would actually work with people, right? Nor have i ever said that anyone has to believe or should believe just because I (or another) claims to have learned it from the Spirit. Please re-read that sentence, anyone who IS reading, because it contradicts the whole 'trump card' accusation.
TEC, you do understand that anyone reading the thread can actually read the words I wrote within those parentheses, right? Why waste time responding to what you clearly overlooked and/or ignored?
I even did you the favor of putting my words in BOLD, since you may have 'parenthetical alexia', a rare form of alexia that makes it difficult for the person to see anything inside of them.
As far as the rest of your post, perhaps you also cannot detect that your "I hear the voice of Jesus as my source of Truth" claim has been utterly debunked? Your Jesus voice doesn't even know his own schtick, much less 'truths' of evolution!
Adam
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tec
TEC, your inner voice clearly hasn't read the NT or understood the Bible's explanation of Jesus' power to heal being solely based on the concept of Jesus being authorized by God to forgive sins, where God's 'Holy Spirit' effects the cure. It wasn't some power Jesus had "inside of him", or even faith in HIM, but rather, faith in God's grace and ability (via Holy Spirit) which actually effected the cure. Jesus was the mediator, the messiah, often referred to as the high priest (who also was able to forgive sins on behalf of God), but the POWER was from God.
Yes, of course the power was from God. What does anything you wrote above have to do with anything that I said?
This was the entire basis of Jesus defense against the Pharisees, who charged Jesus with violating the Sabbath by saying was healing (a form of work which may have required making a mud salve with his spit); Jesus countered by claiming that He (Jesus) wasn't working, or doing work for his OWN benefit (he didn't accept payment), but was doing the work of glorifying his Father. God's spirit was working on the Sabbath, not him!
Again, what does what you are saying here have to do with anything i said regarding faith and healing?
They, the pharisees, were placing 'sacrifice over mercy'... the opposite of what God wants. So that they, the pharisees, condemned the innocent. Christ asked, "Which is lawful on the sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to sve life or to kill?"
Mercy, as the more important matter of the law.
Nothing wrong with doing good to others on the Sabbath.
In fact, there are MANY instances where the "patient" didn't possess or demonstrate faith in Jesus' ability to heal, since the restriction was that the person seeking healing, even on behalf of another person, had to possess faith that Jesus could effect a cure (and if the 'cure' failed, the requestor could be blamed for the treatment's failure, due to their "lack of faith"). And even that is an overstatement, since there are Biblical examples where NO faith in JEsus' ability was demonstrated, or could be demonstrated.
I did not say the patient, did I?
And this example from your 'let us reason' site is not entirely correct; well at least not in the way that you are applying it:
Lk.17:11-19 Jesus healed all 10 lepers but only one obeyed showing that he was the only one to possess true saving faith.
All ten lepers demonstrated faith by going to Christ to begin with... only one of them praised God and gave glory to God for what God had done; showing love as well.
As for those raised who were dead, like Lazarus, first off, Lazarus belonged to Christ, had complete faith IN Christ to begin with, and that would not have changed upon his death. Besides that, there was also the faith of those present, in particular, Mary, the sister of lazarus... that Christ IS the resurrection and the life. Mary went immediately TO Christ when He arrived, demonstrating her faith in Him. Christ was able to demonstrate that He IS the life and the resurrection in calling Lazarus, who belonged to Him, from his grave. Also demonstrating the time when all who are sleeping and in the graves will hear his voice and come out.
The only incident that I recall where faith is not mentioned or implied one way or the other... is the servant whose ear Peter sliced. Peace to you, tammy
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DS211
Tec: why not try this...how about you start an "ill convince you God is real and atheism and/or evolution because.." Thread? that way we may not cloud this thread with ridicule....just trying to save you some contempt from these guys. Just an idea.
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tec
I'm actually off to get my kids, DS, so I will respond later : )
Peace to you,
tammy
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DS211
Im in no way showing favor to either side...just attempting to keep the thread on track....although im not sure what track we are on now lol
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tec
TEC, you do understand that anyone reading the thread can actually read the words I wrote within those parentheses, right?
Yes, and in those parentheses, you said that I think it is a trump card. I responded to all that you said.
DS211, I will actually bow out of this thread at this point. (not from anger or sadness or anything... please do not worry about that or read that into it) You have already stated that the content is what you will look at and/or consider. Perhaps there is something in anything I (or someone else) have shared that will help you on your path. If so, great. If not, no problem. Your path is your own to walk.
I have started threads and given evidence/reason I have for my faith... but that is not the same as being able to prove to someone else that God exists. I am well aware that this is not in my power. God draws people to his son, and that Son (who is alive and is truth) is the evidence. The one to look TO.
Peace to you, and may you find (or be found by) the One you are seeking!
Your servant in Christ,
tammy
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DS211
Its all good tec.
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bohm
DS: Send you a PM on C14.
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DS211
Thanks bohm...the info on the 5000 year old tree vs the noachian flood 4400 years ago is a good example