god-of-the-gaps. Should we or shouldn't we fiil in the gaps with God?

by KateWild 138 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Oy kate, the question is out there... You have to consider the answers now buddy..nevermind the thread is nigh lol x

    I love how people agree with the clear logic and reasoning behind asking questions and being honest in saying "we dont know" instead of "MY deity did it", but then, with their ass cheeks chaffing with annoyance can't resist an inaccurate and nonsensical jibe like... BUT...

    "that doesn't make research god" prologos

    or

    "what makes that intellectually superior?" Kate wild

    you cheeky monkeys ya!

    Bringing in deification of research is bizarre in istelf prologos and has never been said in this thread and I have hever heard, seen read it ever and simply don't comprehend the concept other than a christian fed on the fears of turning footballers, actors, money and .... Hmm research :/ into gods, the paranoia of their religious indoctrination shining through. A new god that competes with my god! But alas, journals and papers on JAK2 receptors are anything but the almighty.. Maybe take the time to read some, you may see how silly it is to say...

    Also kate, the issue of intellect is not present. This clash comes up with my religious JW family quite a bit, but an atheist with informed perspective of the sciences and evidences of the universe and world is simply being the more HONEST by saying "we dont know! There is no evidence to support it!" And ironically it is a more humble approach to the universe. I have never enjoyed saying "we dont know" so much, because its the most honest answer and I dont have to do any dishonest, hypothetical mental gymnatics to explain away my stance, simply hold the things we know in balance to what we don't. There is nothing clever about saying we dont know. It is just the truth. The watchtower have for many years reinforced the idea, that anyone daring to question them is an independant thinker with a self righteius, snotty, egotystical mind, self congratulating themselves on intellectual superiority. Anyone saying "science does not yet / we dont yet ...know", they scoff at, thinking that a wild intepretation of a 3000yr old scroll in comparison is better than no answer, such as the end of the world will happen in 1975 or Aluminium is the metal of the devil or ...wow come buy this miracle wheat!

    Scientists seek out the unknown, the WT have it back to front. As for being academic and educated, the more you learn, the more you realise how little we know and the more humble you become. My family member may scoff as I explain natural selection of gene mutations, explaining how fish became uncle Bob, but I know he believes that insane explination for 1914, though not in the bible, hidden in the bible, counted from 607bce again not inthe bible, but hidden in the bible and frommall modern historians...they cling to "assuming all months are a lunar month of 30 days and assuming a day is a thousand years, but 70 weeks is..." It is crazy talk! This is there e=mc^2 and it is a somewhat shit offer. Alternatively, as with my family member Natural selection of genes happens in a peitry dish! if he really wanted, he could watch it happen, make it happen. The scoffing isembarrassing

    Then there is the irony of WT having all the answers to the universe... What happens after death, how did the universe begin, when will the earth as it is come to its end? The dangers of the internet! These goofs are the most self righteous, egotistical , self congratulating knobs who DEMAND people listen,follow and obey them because GOD has appointed them a role of authority. But the biologist counting yellow seeds in a lab is a "noble" not to be trusted. It is a cult mentality, it is crazy it is fundamentalism at its best. You have to leave a/the religion to see it for what it is! I cant believe people including me dont recognise the absurd and hypocritical stances these dictatorial cults take as a member, but on the inside it is almost impossible to see.

    So no more jibes, please! Or use real ones.... "Yeah but scientists are boring geeks!" Etc etc These odd ideas are born from religious seeds, not reality. Only 2/3 weeks ago someone here said that scientists worship the scientific method and that they personally could think of better methods than the scientific method. They mention the flaws in mathmatics and actuallu suggested psychic meditation and asking the spirit world as an alternative to science. Ps he admitted there was no confirmed evidence of either. This kind of view of the world is so self delusional, a method for observing the universe aka the scientific method, to that person was literally an opposing god to his, akin to obiwan v darth Vader.... queue the music and sfx..... But it is totally delusional, men and women with beards and thick glasses in lab coats and goggles, with klingon dictionaries in their lockers....ARE NOT WORSHIPPING a list of 5 things to do that make a good test....the scientific method. Likewise prologios.... Who on earth is making research a god? It is boooooooring paperwork, what are you saying man! It is a bizzare stance! It is like the bizzare idea that there is a heart and a mind in the inner self! Nooo there is a muscular pump, and there is a mind. no not even metophorically or illustratively does it come near reality... It is an idea born in ancient egypt, that the brain was literally inthe heart as emotions i.e. Cortisol and adrenaline increase heart rate, you feel it in the heart As it pumps harder, it is a flight or fight response. It ended up in jewish lore, therefore the bible, therefore your 2013 christian.... Just like making research ...a god :/

    Science just gives us data, if the data contradicts your beleif system, calling it the work of the devil or an OPPOSING deity may make you feel better but it is simply delusional, there is no other words I can think for it. To then argue that for regions of knowledge where there is no data, please allow me to insert my god as the answer, no matter the question.... Well that is just bizzare too.... And very self deluionary again, why your god? Why would we put all microscopes and dna alanlysers and proton accelerators away, and stop asking just because you want to insert your god there? If you admit that your gap god should not dictate halting of questions, then you admit IT IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ANSWER.... It is a personal plug for fears and confusion for things you dont understand. We all have it, we all do it, but if we try to be honest we have to say "we dont know".

    sorry, last point.... I used to and would love to say... There is 100% no god, because I know there is no known evidence for a god and we have a full explanation and historical record of the invention of gods and the motivation for the invention. Despite this, and despite believing with all my conviction that god is a human concept, I cannot demand that to all things we dont understand "a god definitely did not do it"because I have no evidence for that. So it is the most honest stance to say simple...... Oh i do enjoy this bit..... "We simply do not know yet..."

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Silly QC! Religious views of Einstein.

    I didn't say that Christians couldn't be scientists. I said that filling in the gaps with "god did it" ends inquiry. If we already know the answer, why keep looking?

  • QC
    QC

    jgnat: I didn't say that Christians couldn't be scientists.

    Never said you did say that.

    Your deception is: "god did it", ends inquiry. That’s false!

    Believers in God, Christian thinkers (read the list) fascinated with HOW “God did it” (create nature and the universe), is the reason we have the "Age of "Enlightenment", also known as MODERN SCIENCE.

    The greatest scientist ever, Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, were fascinated and driven to know how “God did it” (create the magnificent universe).

    Both were driven by belief in God.

    That's the point!

  • cofty
    cofty

    Not so QC.

    When Newton could not work out why the planets revolve on the same plane he declared "god-did-it" and thus endeth his quest for knowledge.

    In this specific regard he went from genius to dullard.

    A belief in god may inspire a scientist to do his work but god had no place in the lab.

    google "methodological naturalism"

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    All right, "how did God do it?" could extend a line of inquiry. The OP's question is specifically about the God of Gaps - "god did it", and that does end inquiry. In modern parlance, a physicist could extend his inquiry in to HOW did God create the Higg's Boson? Or not. The result may be the same. The result has been the same so far.

    You are wrong about Einstein.

  • prologos
    prologos

    Einstein even used Jehovah as the name of god,

    check the book, "EINSTEIN IN BERLIN" a whole chapter named:

    "where is (the old) JEHOVAH??"

    he was commenting on the appalling losses of life in the WW1 trenches.

    He maight have had a different idea of god than us simpler beings,

    but an ATHEIST he was not by any definition.

    if truth would be known there are many CLOSET believers among scientists, engineers, techinicians.

    To admit to a belief in a creator is apostasy in the science world , leading to being marked, removal of privileges and shunning

    loss of grants, tenure, income, family.

    The links posted here that feature the word "--IGNORANCE--" are an indication where the argumentd are heading. personal attack.

    as QC repeated: believers in a creator have done the finest science. so far. they were filling the gaps in human knowledge, and science will continue to do so.

    believe me. buwe will never know it all, except the know-it-alls.

  • cofty
    cofty

    To admit to a belief in a creator is apostasy in the science world

    Bait and switch.

    There are many good and successful scientists who openly believe in god.

    Belief in creationism is incompatable with science.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    Both were driven by belief in God.

    This is speculation. Are you arguing they would not have been driven to figure out these great mysteries, without god in the equation? I suspect it would have made no difference in their being driven in the pursuit of understanding these puzzles.

  • cofty
    cofty

    What motivates a person to investigate the world is irelevant.

    The point is "god-did-it" is nothing but a place-holder for an actual answer.

    Whether or not a scientist also held superstitious beliefs is no more interesting than whether or not he/she liked coffee or tea.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Again, the christians are defending a statement nobody has said... why are you listing or even discussing scientists with beliefs?

    Saying it is not beneficial to to claim "god did it" when asking questions about the universe ....does NOT equate to a good scientist cant believe in god.

    The two are NOT the same thing. How do these sneaky straw men begin? Repeating argument heard by pastors? A simple misunderstanding of concept? When I read WT material and religious arguments now, they are full of these sneaky straw men, irrelevant to the topic but aligned enough that without consideration it seems relevant.

    Einstein quite OBVIOUSLY did not think "god did it" sufficed for he spent his life asking beyond that, whether he believed in god or not he sought the answers, so his belief is irrelevant, though he CLEARLY did not feel "god does it" was sufficient in answering why things fall!!!

    Likewise, the issue of saying.... it is not beneficial to say "god did it" ... Is irrelevant to whether people who believe in god do good science or not.

    If a believer is doing science he is not subscribing simply to "God did it". It impairs progress if it is used as an answer to a question and thereby inhibiting the pursuit of any more answers on the topic, this has NO RELEVANCE to scientists and their beliefs and their science.

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