Author Topic: God is Jesus Read 1373 times Be the 1st to rate this thread
Imbue
Master Member
Posts: 680
Since: Feb 23, 2002
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What You Need to Know About Jehovah's Witness (Conversations With the Cults)
MacGregor, Lorri
$6.99 Re: God is Jesus May 5, 2002 13:22
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LT equal is subjective. No substance is truly equal. Numbers are abstract but substances are not. Take gold for instance, the same weight of gold is only considered equal by those that are considering it equal. They assess the quality and then THEY CONSIDER it equal. However it is not equal because it cannot TRULY be the same exact quality and amount. The consideration is subjective therefore not absolute truth.
"Not part of the inner circle class"-Larc
LittleToe
Master Member
United Kingdom
Posts: 657
Since: Sep 12, 2001 Re: God is Jesus May 6, 2002 15:26
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The Shorter Catechism, of the Westminster Confession of Faith declares that they are the same in substance, equal in power and glory.
I think we are taking about the same type of substance, not equality of quantity and purity.
evangelist
Newbie
Germany
Posts: 17
Since: Apr 8, 2002 Re: God is Jesus May 6, 2002 17:12
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Earnest
Thank you for the information on Liardon which I didn`t know he repented of this act. I know every pastor or evangelist is still human and can commit real bad sexual sins which we love to judge and find the false more instead of finding all the good.
I know Jimmy Swagger won millions of sinners to Jesus, and when somebody found out his false christian life he lost his respect.
But after 7 years of hideing his sins why didn`t God stop all though people coming to his kingdom and left Jimmy with a powerful ministry?
I see by this that it not God that destroys a ministry but people that are looking for false things and can`t wait to judge and show their own pride that they are better or perfect.
I still take the Word of God like it is and I know the Word of God is the living Word and it belong to us with power and wounders.
Ac:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Earnest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Posts: 111
Since: Aug 22, 2001 Re: God is Jesus May 6, 2002 19:51
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evangelist,
In your previous post you asked the question "who is deceived".
When I presented evidence that the congregants of the Embassy Christian Centre and the students at Spirit Life Bible College, both headed by Roberts Liardon, had been deceived by him you suggest I am at fault "looking for false things and can`t wait to judge and show my own pride that I am better or perfect".
I assure you I was not looking for false things. I was interested in the source of your reference to Smith Wigglesworth who raised "more than 16 people from the dead". Frankly, I did expect to find some evidence of exaggeration and was not disappointed. Did you know that he [Liardon] also wrote a book We Saw Heaven and claims he was transported to heaven and there met Jesus face to face and that he and Jesus had a water fight in the River of Life? And he saw a building up there full of unclaimed body parts because, it seems, the Smith Wigglesworths of our time are not replacing parts fast enough.
But the so-called "false things" I came across are just the tip of the iceberg. Does it not occur to you that there is some reason "one-quarter of Embassy members, as well as Bible college students and missionaries, have left the church since Liardon's admission". Do you really think Jimmy Swaggart is an endorsement for this kind of behaviour??? I am reminded of the scripture "God is not one to be mocked..."
Earnest
"Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" - Rev. Charles Dodgson
evangelist
Newbie
Germany
Posts: 17
Since: Apr 8, 2002 Re: God is Jesus May 7, 2002 04:36
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i am sorry That I thought you was trying to judge, but I see alot of christian try to do this because they have more lies and problems than the ones they judge and talk about. one again i thank you for the report you gave me and I am shocked myself about Liadon but my interest is on Smith wiggle worth who worked in many manifestaion of the power of God. I know he done funny thinks like throw a baby on the wall and it became perfectly healthy, but I think God worked by Wiggleworth by his faith and understanding because I think Wigglewoth had a child like thinking and this is apreciated by God, and I know he had a heart toward God and a deep relatioship with God living in God presence.
God Bless you
peace
Earnest
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Posts: 111
Since: Aug 22, 2001 Re: God is Jesus May 7, 2002 23:20
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evangelist,
Hmmm...well, don't put too much stock on these "powerful works". I am sure you are familiar with Jesus' words at Matthew 7:22,23 that he will reject many who performed powerful works in his name. That is not to say that miracles are not relevant but that they can only be supplementary to doing God's will if they are to be pleasing to him.
So, if we are going to rely on "men of God that work in the power of God like Smith Wigglesworth" we do need to look beyond their works to what they actually believed. Fortunately, SW wrote a number of books and so we have a pretty good idea what he believed and taught.
He believed that all sickness was from the devil and everyone could be healed. Consequently, he taught that miraculous healing and exorcism should be practiced instead of medicine.
However, despite the claims made for him he was unable to help many who were close to him -
Mary Boddy, the woman who laid hands on Wigglesworth in 1907 when he was 'baptized in the Spirit', spent the last sixteen years of her life as an invalid.
His wife, Polly, became sick and died in 1913 while still quite young.
His youngest son, George, died two years later.
His daughter, Alice Salter, frequently traveled with him after his wife's death. Alice was deaf and was never healed.
Smith also had his share of disease including kidney stones, sciatica and a slight stroke (in 1944).
I am not relating this to mock the man. But I do think that others, like Roberts Liardon, have claimed more for him than he did himself and hope that presenting these facts will encourage you to rely more on scripture and avoid the snare of personalities.
Earnest
"Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" - Rev. Charles Dodgson
Edited by - Earnest on 8 May 2002 13:56:13
Imbue
Master Member
Posts: 680
Since: Feb 23, 2002 Re: God is Jesus May 7, 2002 23:35
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Little Toe you know I'm just ....teasing you
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"Not part of the inner circle class"-Larc
LittleToe
Master Member
United Kingdom
Posts: 657
Since: Sep 12, 2001 Re: God is Jesus May 9, 2002 04:55
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Imbue:
Oh you tease, you!!!!
LOL
evangelist
Newbie
Germany
Posts: 17
Since: Apr 8, 2002 Re: God is Jesus May 13, 2002 05:05
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hello Earnest
I know this matt7 is a favorite verse for the JHW, mainly because they have no powers of the Lord behind them. The bible says;
Ac:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I believe that Smith Wigglesworth had this power, and believed the Word of God as his final Word, so He believed not only he is a son, but also I believe he knew that he was an disciple, and high priest of God, so Wiggleworth just used the authority that was given to him like M't:10:1: And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
M't:10:7: And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
M't:10:8: Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
I know sickness is from the devil, and if Wiggleworth heal the sick with the power of Jesus, and cast out demons, and raised the dead this was a attack against the devil, and many people turned and believed the Lord even more, and people repented and got saved by the thousands in Wiggleworth meeting so Wiggleworth was really showing that Jesus was in him and worked through him.
M't:12:25: And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
M't:12:26: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
M't:12:27: And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
M't:12:28: But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
I beleieve that Wiggleworth had a strong faith to remove mountain like M'r:11:22: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
M'r:11:23: For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
M'r:11:24: Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
M'r:11:25: And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
I don`t know why Wiggleworth could not heal his own family, but maybe his faith fell looking at his own family like peter looking at his situation when he was walking on the water.
Peter took his eyes off of Jesus, and he started to sink, so could this be by WiggleWorth.
I know also many people followed Jesus because of the powers on him and the way he cast out demons, and raised the dead destroying satan kingdom and thousands have followed HIM because of his signs and wounders, praise God.
Benny Hinn is another anointed pastor that has the power of God on him, and Just as people talked bad about Jesus, so will men try to talk bad about people with true powers of God on them using scriptures like Matt 7, to back up themself because there is no anointing on their life, and no signs that Jesus is in them so most people judge and say this is from the devil.
I hope you get my point.
Most people who don`t believe that Jesus is God have a great problem believing the power of God on other anointed men of God, and they call them phonies and fakes of the gospel ,not knowing that the Holy Spirit is behind the miricles, and wounder.
M'r:16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
funkyderek
M'r:16:18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This is a statement made not by Wiggleworth, but it is from Jesus Christ HIMSELF saying this will happen and shall happen, people will recover, by laying on of hands.
I see no doctors mention, even though I respect doctors, but my faith and I think Wiggleworth faith is in Jesus.
You are right that Wiggleworth did not do any cureing, It was Jesus,that was in Smith that did the healing.
remember jesus is the same yesterday today and FOREVER, AMEN
Let God Bless you
peace