Jehovah's Witness boy fights court for right to die

by jwfacts 87 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Here in Canada programs are set up specifically for teen Type 1 Diabetics as they transition from parental monitoring to personal monitoring of their health. Teens assess risk differently than adults. Sloppy monitoring of Diabetes can result in permanent disability or death. Is the state interfering by providing additional coaching and training at this critical age?

    Daily monitoring of blood sugar levels and injection of insulin could similarly be classed as an invasion of the person's body.

    What we don't have (other than Christian Scientists and Amish) is a prohibition against medical intervention.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    slimboyfat said

    You are right my view of reality is pretty nihilistic. I find it a pretty nihilistic world. That's the God's honest truth, and I don't believe in God, or in truth.

    okay I think understand your standpoint slimboyfat. It seems to me that you are arguing from a moral standpoint and are saying that you, and by extension we, have a moral duty to ensure that the state does not intervene to violate a person or his/her body. But where does morality spring from? does it orginate from within a person or does it come from cultural norms and rules?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I don't think there is any rational basis for any given morality. It's all culturally contingent or constructed and to be argued over.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts
    Besty - SBF is correct - the title of the thread is inaccurate.

    The title is as how it appeared on a news website, and the article url.

    SBF - I don't believe there is any such thing as "false understanding", just different understandings.

    That is an extreme comment. "We do not need water in order to live" is a false understanding, not a different understanding, and if acted upon will lead to death.

    You say that the State is another form of tryanny to avoid. If a parent is abusing their child, how do you react in the cases that occur on at least a yearly basis when the state does nothing and the child dies?

    SBF - The question I pose is, "if at 17 you required a transfusion and had it forced upon you, how would you feel now?" As far as I know, you were an active JW at the time, and like that boy would have been willing to die for your religious ideals. Knowing what you know now, would you be grateful to have been given a chance at life?

    Most people I know that attempt suicide and survive, are grateful to survive. We do not always act in our best interests.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    At the tail end of Pinker's book on the Language Instinct, he provides a list of another dozen hard-wired instincts that people may have. I would suggest that these would represent an absolute morality that people around the world believe in.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    I don't think there is any rational basis for any given morality. It's all culturally contingent or constructed and to be argued over

    The above is an extreme form of cultural relevancy, and fortunately, it is rejected even by the vast majority of cultural anthropologists. One of my undergraduate professors told the class of his experience of working with a colleague to perform an ethnography of a certain culture. They discovered rank child abuse (very, very young girls). His colleague didn't want to report it to the government because he thought is 'was just their culture,' and he used SLB's argument above to justify his position.

    Law are simply cultural mores that become have so well established that they are codified. Therefore, all laws stem from morality.

    Hence, using SLB's logic, all laws are irrational, culturally contingent, and "to be argued over."

    The flaw in his reasoning is to say that there is no "rational basis for any given morality." Of course there is a rational basis because societies as a whole function as rational groups who are seeking their best interest. That's why world-wide mores (e.g., rejection of murder) are the most rational of all.

    The legal concept that the state must protect its assets, including its human assets (children), stems from a moral norm held by, as far as I know, all nations. It's held by all nations because it is in their rational best interest to do so.

    The only issues that are argued are the ones we have discussed here: when, how, under what circumstances, etc., the state should intervene.

    Edited to add: SLB's position can also justify the anarchist's actions, which is something my poor city (Seattle) is all too familiar with.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Justitia said-

    The flaw in his reasoning is to say that there is no "rational basis for any given morality."

    Of course there is a rational basis because societies as a whole function as rational groups who are seeking their best interest.

    Yup, you stole my thunder by objecting to SBFs words claiming there was no 'rational' basis.

    And thanks for pointing out that this only applies "as a whole": otherwise, we'd have to tap-dance to explain the actions of rancorous groups like the Tea Party/GOP, and the global climate change deniers.

    Adam

    That's why world-wide mores (e.g., rejection of murder) are the most rational of all.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Law are simply cultural mores that become have so well established that they are codified

    Wow...I have been reversing letters and words all morning long! ...need more coffee.

    Make that "Laws are simply cultural mores that have become so well established that they are codified."

    Or better yet, I think I will head out the door for a pre-football game mimosa at my daughter's brunch. GO SEAHAWKS!!!! Kah!!! Kah!!!

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