Gay MS??

by andysmiles 65 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Neverendingjourney, I'm not going to say where I live exactly but I will give you a region: Northeastern US.

    A lot can change in 10 years. A little less than 2 years ago, our CO made a special point during one of his talks to mention the society's stance on gay JWs. He said, in essence, that we hate the sin, not the sinner. That we're all imperfect and some JWs deal with homosexuality as in imperfection. He also mentioned that some of these ones include elders, servants, and pioneers. We should never judge someone by their inherent imperfection, as we are all trying not to act on our sinful tendencies.

    Here are a couple of quotes from

    "While the Bible disapproves of homosexual acts, it does not condone hatred of homosexuals or homophobia. Instead, Christians are directed to “respect everyone.” — 1 Peter 2:17"

    "The same struggle is faced by millions with heterosexual desires who wish to conform to the Bible’s standards. For example, those who are single with little prospect of marriage or who are married to a partner who is unable to function sexually choose to control their sexual urges despite any temptations they might face. They are able to live happily, and those with same-sex urges can do so as well if they truly want to please God. — Deuteronomy 30:19 ."

    I know of two recent cases where after coming out to elders and trusted friends/famliy, gay JWs who agree with the Watchtower's take on homosexuality have been treated in a very kind manner, getting support and encouragement.

    Are there still plenty of cases where people are treated harshly or unfairly? Yes. But I see a number of people slowly trending away from the hateful, close-minded attitudes that dominated the group in the past.

    For the record, I totally disagree with the Society's take on homosexuality. I think it's condescending.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot - "...Instead, Christians are directed to 'respect everyone'..."

    Except, of course, those mentally-diseased, helpers-in-Satan's-kitchen XJW apostates. F**k those guys.

  • steve2

    I have long believed that the elders found it less difficult to "cope" with my being homosexual (albeit celibate) than my doubts about the organization (albeit keeping them to myself). However, when I could no longer, in good conscience, remain in the organization (due to my doubts not my sexual orientation), the elders quickly made indirect reference to my sexual orientation, alleging I was looking for any excuse so I could quit.

    Theirs was a clever way to frame my exit because as soon as the rank and file were told about my sexual orientation, that was good enough reason to shun me (even though I was celibate and was not the reason for my leaving).

    I know this happened because family and a few friends still in the organization told me.

    I'd like to think that homophobic mentality has changed and any indication that it has, I would acknowledge. However, I suspect that when push comes to shove, the elders will aim any missile in the doubter's direction, caring little for their deliberately creating utterly false impressions about doubter's actual behavior.

    I do not think that homosexuals necessarily suffer more in the organization - god knows all sorts of people in all sorts of situations suffer in the organization - just that when you're gay, you're simply a more convenient negative target and more easily dispatched.

  • fulltimestudent

    Haha! Vidiot - its an interesting angle.

    I think a good argument can be mounted, that among Yahweh's people 'respect' is not a commandment. That includes both the OT (where disrespect is particularly noticeable). Think of Elijah and the the Baal worshippers, for one example. But there are plenty of others.

    And, the NT is the same. As far as we can discover (historically), the Pharisees were not evil, but Jesus seems to hate them with a passion, and could hardly be said to have been respectful of the ideas of others. And, then there's Paul wishing that his fellow Christians who had not accepted his (Paul's) teachings should have their testicles cut-off. Not very respectful of him, was it?

    And, then as concerns Yahweh's loving people of today, there's the simple matter of respect for those who decide they no longer wish to be one of Jehovah's witnesses. This is of particular concern for those who were baptised as young people and who later realise they are not particularly interested in religion.

    Why can't they be allowed to, 'leave the JW organisation with dignity?' Presently, the disrespectful attitude is, that they must be driven out of the organisation, and punished for arrivng at the conclusion that they do not want to be a witness.

    The falseness of their call to 'respect everyone,' is evident in the case of men who are attracted to other men. They would condemn that person to a life of singleness. If a gay elder, decides that Armageddon is too far away and he wants to have the freedom to find and meet a male life partner, and does so - he will be driven from the organisation with no compassion.

    The stupidity of these "Christians," in refusing to let people 'leave with dignity' and to maintain ties with their families, has created a rod for their own backs. The great wave of resentment (evident here) is swelling up and threatening to swallow their organisation.

    And, it will serve them right !!!!!!!

  • Vidiot
    fulltimestudent - "The stupidity of these 'Christians', in refusing to let people 'leave with dignity' and to maintain ties with their families, has created a rod for their own backs. The great wave of resentment (evident here) is swelling up and threatening to swallow their organisation."

    Authoritarian regimes almost completely hinge on the existence of an existential enemy; if there isn't one already, it will inevitably be fabricated. In fact, the creation of that enemy happens almost organically.

    After 1975 and Ray Franz, the GB felt so knee-jerk threatened by anything that refuted WT ideology, they - for all intents and purposes - issued a fatwa against XJWs. That attitude continued to simmer and percolate for the next quarter century, coming to a boil when Ted Jaracz started ranting about a "Vast Apostate Army" preparing to grind the WTS under its heel (and thusly kickstarting the Big A)...

    ...the irony being that it was his steel-fisted tenure (not to mention the Information Age) that really helped the XJW community come together in a way that had never been possible before.

  • neverendingjourney
    I will give you a region: Northeastern US

    How interesting. I grew up in a Spanish congregation in the South, an environment that is more socially conservative than the Northeast, where gay marriage was born.

    Rumors of homosexuality were used as a weapon in my area. Certain gossipy sisters would spread rumors about young unmarried men if they weren't sufficiently deferntial to their cliques. Just about every young man who was disfellowshipped was later rumored to be gay.

    Hopefully the attitude you experience in your area will begin to catch on elsewhere.

  • friendaroonie

    Welcome to the forum. I hope you feel comfortable here. You have quite a journey ahead of you.

  • trujw

    The problem is the watchtower constantly contradicts itself. Just look at wher they say they don't shun former members then go on to say they do Way down on the bottom.

  • Amie Les JW
    Amie Les JW

    Hi, I'm a year into my fade. I don't go to the meetings anymore, but I found it so hard when I did, because of there being so many pretty sista's. Sometimes I would literally feel like my brain was being split in two.

    I can honestly say that the best thing for me has been to stay away from the meetings, not just based on my sexuality, but also just my happiness and my peace of mind.

    My best jwfriend visited me the other day and said how appalled she was that there was a standing ovation after some 'gay' scene in a play that she saw. She loved the play she just thought that ruined it. I was speechless.

    I read somewhere that in an anonymous survey 1 in 3 men identify with being attracted to other men. I kind of looked around the hall and that actually made me feel better, because I found that 1 in 3 brothers and sisters are a lot messed up with nerve problems or anxiety- and I thought that the secrets that they are keeping are probably making them sicker. I just knew I didn't want to end up like them... repressed and unhappy.

    good luck on your journey


  • gcs7000

    Greetings, andysmiles.

    A certain young man said to a JW, "I would love to be a JW, but I am a homosexual, and homosexuals cannot become JWs." The JW replied, "You might be surprised how many JWs *are* homosexual. You see, the issue is not one's sexual orientation. The issue is whether or not one will obey God's admonition to 'flee from fornication.' "

    All humans are sinners and prone to sinful conduct. God does not discriminate between heterosexuals and homosexuals. All must flee from fornication in order to remain chaste. I personally know quite a few non-JW homosexuals who have chosen to remain chaste by not practicing fornication. This issue is not unique to JWs.

    Comments? Questions?

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