Zimmerman Not guilty

by mouthy 480 Replies latest social current

• 

  Simon

  I have already shown one example where everyone does NOT have equal rights under the law.

  I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I guess the Rights vs Liberties does really matter if you are to appreciate the point.

  Are there any laws that say black people cannot drive cars? vote? scratch their nose? or do anything else?

  No, those would be protected by Civil Rights. As far as I know (I asked and no one suggested any) there are no laws like those. That is why I say the Civil Rights movement was successful - they faught the war to change the law and won.

  Now, are you free to walk the streets without harrassment? meet a friend? etc...

  If someone is preventing that then I believe it is a Civil Liberty issue.

  The language is very confusing as you have the Right to certain Liberties / freedoms but the semantics are the same.

  You are comparing someone having the right to drive a car or not with being pulled over and suspected of speeding. If they are pulled over for being black and not for speeding then their liberties have been compromised but they still have the right to drive a car - there is no law saying they cannot.
• 

  Simon

  we do not live in a legalistic world

  You really think that? I assume you are in America ... and you believe that?!

  The problem with making this about Civil Rights is this:

  How do you win?

  What law do you change to protect the rights of people that they do not already have?

  The application of the law needs to be fair but that would go back to civil liberties. The distinction is important. Someone claiming to be an attourney should certainly not be getting it wrong. But I suspect they (Crump etc) intentionally get it wrong precisely because it is a non-winnable issue and can be kept going forever.
• 

  Simon

  Systems can be abused and people can not do their duty. But they stand to loose their job when investigated and they are investigated and accredited all the time. We were accredited every 6 months by an independent agency.

  Yes, the system needs to be accountable and auditable - it's why paperwork exists so people can check that someone isn't stopping a certain ethnicity all the time without having a good reason to.

  Manipulating crime statistics works both ways though - it sounds like the police force at Sanford was treating black kids differently to others to artificially lower the crime stats for them - that is not violating their civil liberties or their rights but indirectly ends up putting other citizens at risk as a result and is insidious in that it promotes the idea that people can be treated differently (whether positively or negatively) based on their color.

  It's also likely to promote criminal activity because kids are not stupid and know if they can get away with things.
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  You don't hear Not-So-Sharpton raising a civil rights issue over this...

  Black woman stands her ground, kills white man

  

  Of course, it could turn out that she acted prematurely. It could turn out that she didn't. And of course, the family of the victim claims that the man shot was just a regular guy - he would never do anything like that. Sounds familiar.

  Whatever the truth - where is the outrage? Where is MSNBC? CNN?

  MMM
• 

  Simon

  Was that because someone was black? someone was white? or because a woman was driving?!

  ba-dum-tish ... I'll be here for three more nights ladies and gentlemen, be sure to tip your waitress

  Aw c'mon - if people are going to hate me I may as well give them something substantial ...
• 

  sosoconfused

  "When you are a cop you don't racial profile anybody or you wont make it out of basic training.

  • You have to be able to put into words why you stop someone.
  • No one will ever be racialy profiled.
  • Every one will be stoped because there is a legaly verbily documetable reason.

  Or the cop wont be on the force long."

  James I respect the time you spent as an officer of the law - however I do not think that all police forces use those same measures or maybe they do not have someone checking them. As a teenager in NJ we were constantly profiled. Kicked out of parks merely because someone said so. Friends were arrested and had drugs planted on them(happen to a dub friend of mine - destroyed him and his family). People physically attacked because the cops just wanted to do it and "make you respect them".

  Unfortunately in large urban areas the police are not put to the same scrutiny as other areas apparently. There are a number of horror stoies that can be told along these lines. Profiling exists and it is not uncommon
• 

  Simon

  Did you make a complaint about any of those incidents?

  Documented complaints are hard to hide (because typically, they should go through another branch) and are important for possible future cases and to bring about actually change.

  It's difficult to be fair to either side when there is only hearsay of something.
• 

  Simon

  And a serious comment on the news report re: the motorist ...

  The media is going to bombard us with every crime story it can that looks in any way like the TM / GZ incident or "stand your ground" law so it can keep this attention-gold-mine producing for as long as it can. They want controversy and will fan whatever flames they need to get things to report.

  Don't take everything at face value. Read multiple reports from different sources (check it's not the same report repeated). Check and question whether things really are exactly the same and not just similar (or completely different like the previous one of the woman firing at her ex-husband).

  Don't be duped.
• 

  talesin

  Because cops stop them for lights out, missing, illegible plates, safety violations.

  They don't stop them because of their color.

  That's why a cop lost his job for racial profiling here about 5 years ago. What did he do? Pulled over a black LAWYER who was driving a BMW late at night. He picked the wrong person to harrass on that particular evening. Yeah, it doesn't happen ....

  I won't post a newspaper article about it, though, because it may get removed.

  And FTR, Simon is not an ass, just, I feel, very passionate about this subject. Site owners can get caught up in the moment just like the rest of us.

  t
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Bingo on what Simon said.

  The media is used. The goal is high viewership.

  Always keep a balanced view, always read different sources. Always take each side with a grain of salt. Never assume because of past court cases that the current one is the same. Each one has a different story.

  And those who have been slamming Simon on his statements, please take of your "perfection" glasses as you view perfection. Each person has different view and they are not wrong simply because you don't agree. The perception of his views ( or even perception of the repeated correcting false information that others keep posting) also do not negate all the rest of his works in creating and maintaining this site.

  Please keep your eyes and ears open, listen to the reports and filter out the opinions, focus on the facts. Form your own opinion based on the facts, not emotions. ( which can be difficult to do)