Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

jerome

Hello all..

I came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so I decided that I would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.

Here is the question... Is Jesus just "a god?"

Many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.

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Senario: Talking with a Witness at your door.

Me: What does the NWT say in John 1:1

Witness In the begining there was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was 'a god.'

Me: a god !? [gasp!]

Witness: Yes thats right.

Me: So is Satan a god too?

Witness: Yes he is but he's a false God.
[ the Witness looks disgusted as he utters the word 'Satan.']

Me: So is Jesus a true God or a false god?

Witness: Well... [looks at his watch] he's a 'lesser god.'
[in a really small voice]

Me: So is he a 'lesser true God' or a 'lesser false god?'

WItness: Would you be intrested in receving this 'free' gift of a 'Bible study aid'?

Me: I don't have any money on me right now. But you dident anwser my question though.
Is the Word a 'lesser true God' or a 'lesser False God?'

Witness: I think I have to go soon as you see the neighbourhood is rather large and I have alot of ground to cover mabe we can talk later.

Me: Ok. have a nice day. Bye.

Can any witness anwser that question?

jerome
335

You Know

Me: What does the NWT say in John 1:1

YK: In the begining there was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was 'a god.'

Me: a god!?

YK: Yes thats right.

Me: So is Satan a god too?

Witness: Yes, the Scriptures say that he is the god of this world.

Me: So is Jesus a true God or a false god?

YK: He is neither in that sense. Jehovah is of course the only true God because he is a God in his own right, whereas all the other gods are such by his grant or forebearance, whatever the case may be. Strictly speaking, Satan is not the false god of this world. He truly is a god. So is Jesus. Neither one are make-believe gods. But both are lesser gods in relation to Jehovah God.

Me: So is he a lesser true God or a lesser false god?

YK: Well, according to John 1:1, the thing that makes Jesus unique is that Jehovah created him before all other creatures. "In the beginning" means that Jesus, or the Word as he is called in that particular text, had a beginning. So, the Word has the honor and distinction of having been the only creature in existence that was created directly by Jehovah God himself and thereafter having the privilege of sharing Jehovah's power in creating the rest of the creation. Which, incidently, is why Jesus is called the Only-begotten Son, because only he was directly begotten by the Father. All the other sons of God came into existence through Jesus---coincidently, including the son of God that became the Devil. So, Jesus is a mighty god by virtue of Jehovah's gracious nature of honoring his inferiors and bestowing unspeakable glory upon them. / You Know

jerome

Nice reply Yk.

But...

I think youre trying to pull a fast one on me.

Lets do some thinking here.

What is the one thing that all Gods require? Reguardless of their nature or status?

Do you know? Well i'll tell you. All god's require that you worship them.

According to the Bible, there is only one god worthy of worship. God Almighty.

Bearing that in mind I Leave you with two questions:

1) Can you be a true God and not be worthy of worship?

2) Isnt a characteristic of false gods that they demand worship for themselves. And doesent this make god angry because he is a jelous true God.

jerome

butalbee

Me: WTF????

You Know

According to the Bible, there is only one god worthy of worship. God Almighty.

That's not exactly true. In the case of Jesus, Jehovah demands that all creation acknowledge Christ as the authority in recognition of Jesus' sacrifice. So, when the Son of man is given the kingdom every knee will bend to Christ as if he were Jehovah God because that's what Jehovah requires, that his Son be honored that way. Hebrews 1:6 says: But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels do obesiance to him."

Notice that the scripture says that Jesus is worshipped because God commands it. The point is that Jesus does not detract from Jehovah's glory, but on the contrary, he brings even more glory to Jehovah because of his loyalty he allows God to demonstrate the depth of his magnaminity. Remember, in the Garden of Eden Satan slandered Jehovah when he implied that God was suspicious of his creation and that God held back things from his creatures because they can't be trusted. However, in the case of Jesus, God gives him the very thing that Satan coveted, and more, much more, than Satan could imagine, in that Jehovah conferred immortality upon the resurrected Jesus. (As well as the 144,000) / You Know

jerome

Two points.

1)

Me: So is he a true God or a False god?
YK: Well he is nethier in that sense...

So in what sense is Jesus a god?

Youre either the God of Israel or you are a False God. Care to elabourate?

___________________________________________

2) Do you rember a little verses in the Bible:

Exodus 20:3?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

So was God Almighty (that never changes) telling the angles to disobey one of his commandements?

I'm pretty shure that if I am worshiping somebody than I am putting them before all else.

jerome
336

p.s. I'm surprised that you have actually used the word 'worship', wow. What would Fred Franz say?

You Know

So in what sense is Jesus a god?

In the sense that Jehovah made him one.

So was God Almighty (that never changes) telling the angles to disobey one of his commandements?

Technically, the angels are not under the Law of Moses. But, that's neither here, nor there. The way to understand it is that Jesus is in union with Jehovah, even as Christ said he was when he was on the earth. So, Jesus' godship is not in rivalry with Jehovah, as are other gods. Jesus being a god is not at Jehovah's expense becuase those who give Jesus recognition also must of neccessity recognize the Father that bestowed such honor on his Son so that he gave him the kingdom. It's a beautiful thing, really. / You Know

Adonai438

So, correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying YK, that the Bible says There is only one true God but Jesus is a different,lesser a god, that is created by Jehovah the Father? Jesus is also a true god in the sense that he isn't a false god but not in the sense that he's actually god?
OK, that doesn't work. The idea of saying 'yes the Bible says....' but then adding 'but it really means...'.
The 'but it really means' part isn't scripture, its added explanation so if it is contradicted by scripture then it (not the scripture) is wrong. I know you think you agree with that last statement but do you really when you can always 'trump' scripture with extra-biblical explanations?
What do you think of the following scripture:
Isaiah 43:10-11 emphasis on the second half:
"You are my witnesses," declares Yahweh,"and my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am Yahweh and apart from me there is no savior."
God here is clearly saying that there are NO created 'gods' period-none before nor after. Since you 'think' Jesus is created (which is contrary to scripture also) and you 'think' he is only 'a god' then exactly when was he created? Before the Father, after the Father? Neither of those two options are right according to Isaiah and what does that leave?

jerome

Ok...

Where are Yadirf and Mavman?

It seems that YK is getting out numbered here.

jerome
337

p.s.

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

Kenneson

John 1:1 places the Word in the beginning. It doesn't say the Word
had a beginning. Gen. 1:1 says: "In the beginning God created..."
God was there in the beginning, but no one would suggest He had a beginning. Moreover, vs. 26 indicates that God was speaking to someone, because it says "let us make man in our image." He couldn't have been speaking to angels as some infer, because angels themselves were created and did not create. (John 1:3) Hebrews 1 and 2 prove that Jesus is not an angel, but that he is superior to them. And
1 Peter 3:22 shows that angels are subject to Jesus. So when it says
"let us make man in our image" it could only be referring to the Word
who is Jesus. There never was a time when God was without His Word.
There never was a time when God was "speechless." Gen. 1 on numerous occasions says "And God said..." Does God have a mouth and voice
to speak as some believe? Or is this an anthropomorphism? Is God's spokesman (the Word) there at the very beginning of creation or not?
If Jesus is already in the beginning then both the Father and the Son are co-creator. Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God (Rev. 3:14) not that he himself was created, but rather that he is the
origin of creation. See also Col. 1:16-17

Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

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