by sosoconfused 86 Replies latest watchtower bible
Great stuff in this thread. Here's the first YouTube video I made on this topic about 2 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV2WcRWfcIA
You'll note I distorted my voice bc I thought I could get possibly be outed lol...oh boy I've learned a lot since then...
That video is still great!
Hassan's 'mystical manipulation' is the key to understanding all Christian religions. You have to first allow yourself to be convinced you are a 'sinner' and then convinced you need a go-between to God for that heavenly divine pat on the head.
The other point of fallacy is to say 'the Bible says' when really it is crazy ol Paul who is making this stuff up.
The WTS often applies 1 Tim 2:5 to Jesus mediating prayer. Why do they then say that Jesus only mediates for the anointed. The GC cannot pray? Quote
*** w04 4/1 p. 32 Should We Call Upon Angels for Help? ***
However, angels do not serve as intercessors who bring human prayers to the throne of the Most High. God has determined that prayers be addressed to him in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, who said: “No matter what you ask the Father in my name he might give it to you.”—John 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:5.
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*** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God “in Spirit” ***
Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular “saints,” asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Timothy 2:5.
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*** w75 7/1 p. 402 par. 8 Coming to the Hearer of Prayer ***
To communicate readily with the heavenly Father, one must accept Christ Jesus as Lord. Peace with God can come only through the appointed way, the ransom provision by the Lord Jesus. (Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6)
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*** w75 2/15 p. 112 Insight on the News ***
As for intercession, 1 Timothy 2:5 says: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” And Jesus himself said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”—John 14:6, 14.
I was born into a multigenerational family that started out with the Bible Students. In fact, they were early Bible Students. My father and uncles worked in the factory at Bethel when there were few Bethelites. They knew Freddie Franz, Rutherford, Knorr, Henschel, and the others b/c it was so small that intimacy existed. We would go to JW conventions and these leaders would acknowledge and talk to my father. We had no respect in the KH but I was raised that only key people at Bethel mattered.
I only found out basic WT doctrines after I left. Important things were so fuzzy in my mind. My view of Jesus and other Bible luminaries was a mix of public school, Disney, and the Witnesses. Altho I always heard Witnesses rant aboujt the Trinity, I had no clue that most Christians, even Arians, would totally reject the extremely low position of Jesus in the WT pantheon. One key problem is that they kept changing the doctrine. It is hard to keep up to speed.
Once I learned basic mainstream Christian belief through my study of history and culture, I was shocked. When I finally read my Bible in long sittings with no commentary, my shock deepened. I had no clue they were so far off. Intentional misrepresenation was present. B/c of my background in political science and law, I cornered priests and ministers to grill them for exact definition and very minute doctrinal points. Most priests come from a different framework. They are more pragmatic and realtiy based than I am. They often refused to further define items b/c they are incapable of future definiton. Many concepts are deliberately vague in my denomination b/c the history of fights was so bloody, a recoil effect emerged. Faithful good people were burned at the stake and tortured for whether to kneel or stand during communion and prayer.
All this information always existed. Well,since the late 1800s at least. I was a latecomer. I had no idea. Not the slightest.
My family went to prison, lived at Bethel so they barely ate, rode subways all night because of late curfews. We suffered for a higher cause. I know for an absolute certainty that the most dedicated people in my family could not tell you the basic beliefs of JWs. Not at all. They only can repeat the Wt word for word, In fact, they will not paraphrase. They bring out the article as tho it was absolute, incarnate Truth. I wept when I realized.
My summary is cult. Cult. Cult. It would not bother me so much if I hated all Witnesses. I know most are fine people. So sad and disturbing.
Also, I lived in the beat down neighborhood part of what the local Witnesses referred to as Goat Hill. My classmates were Roman Catholic and Protestant. We told no one but we saw every Bible film by Cecil B/ DeMille. Some very tacky ones, too. The WTBTS can say the Great Crowd has no mediator but as a toddler I knew in my heart, that Jesus loved me.
Today when I endure something that angers or irks me I always comment that Jesus should have noticed me on earth and awarded me 2,000 Heaven bonus points for my good behavior. KH was a finite number of hours.
All Christians are impacted by the Hollywood and Tv productions.
Since the Great crowd has no mediator we are still saved by washing our robes and making them white in the blood of the lamb.
Dude. Rev 7 says the great crowd came out of the great tribulation. Thus whether they needed a mediator for that or not, does not matter, they are through it. They are saved.
Seriously. Think it through first before you start another lame topic.
Well Rat please remember that some peoples journey with religion is not merely about being saved...It's about having a personal relationship with Jesus and knowing that through his sacrifice he also plays a major role in our day to day communique with God. Yes Jesus means something to them besides JUST A SACRIFICE that we benefit from.
That might not mean anythign to you - but it does to many. It might sound lame to you and that is YOUR opinion. But please do not think that your request for me to stop making any kind of post will be adhered to. Sorry but you don't have that kind of authority.
"It's about having a personal relationship with Jesus and knowing that through his sacrifice he also plays a major role in our day to day communique with God. "
Why would anyone want a personal relationship with Jesus? He is the mediator bringing one to Jehovah God.
Why have the relationship with the mediator when the purpose is to have the relationship with Jehovah God?
Yeah... why would anyone want to have a personal relationship with the guy who died for ya? After all its not like Jesus did anything for anyone.
