Kinky details to JW boys death

by Kep 63 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  anewperson

  SEAKN, no one said the boy was murdered but he is DEAD. Given the information that was withheld from the police he was probably horrified that elders or kids not being put off from it by elders were doing things he felt God disapproved of such as indecent exposure so tried to escape and wound up drowning. It is possible someone pushed him into the lake to shut him up forever, but no one here said that was a fact. Still, the boy is DEAD. DEAD is dead. There is no excuse possible for this. If some don't want to blame the two adults in any way since it will make Mama Watchtower and the position of elder less secure, tough luck. A kid is dead. This isn't propaganda, this is FACT. Put yourself in the parent's shoes!

  Now as to a "Mossad" (Israeli CIA) thing, since when do they kill a kid instead of a parent. Simplest thing is the young man was disgusted, ran off and drowned himself. We're right to be disgusted too.
• 

  Xander

  And, YES, the elder(?s?) present are responsible if for no other reason than they were the adults on the scene.

  This was a KID under their supervision. At the very least, he DIED because they weren't watching him. More nefarious plot details can be speculated at, but we do know that, under adult supervision, he ended up dead.

  Xander F
  (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)

  A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
  --George Santayana
• 

  Beck_Melbourne

  I think I tend to agree with expatbrit....it was a well intended camping trip where an accident occurred.

  Thank you SimpleSally...I don't have any WT resources to check things out myself...goes to show how well indoctrinated I was when I was a borg member...sheesh!! Now I struggle trying to remember my lotto numbers

  SEAKEN2001...Kep said that maybe the word "kinky" was a bit over the top. It wasn't meant to imply that the boys were cross dressing or gay...as we can all see from the article that they were just playing pranks as all of us do from time to time I'm sure...regardless of our JW status. The point was...the elder in charge of the camping trip decided to keep this indiscretion to themselves. Why??? Because of the consequences...ie. Monty Gower and headquarters getting involved and ALL THIS PUBLICITY!!!

  I too feel for this family....I'm sure what could have been a simple accident has now been turned into a circus...not because of the photos...but because of their fear of reprisal.

  Beck
• 

  SixofNine

  And, YES, the elder(?s?) present are responsible if for no other reason than they were the adults on the scene.

  C'mon. I don't know what happpened, no one does at present, it would seem. But accidents do happen. Kids can make bad choices, even in close proximity to adults who are completely responsible. It's called "life". These witnesses greatest sin may end up being that they were living it.
• 

  shalom

  The article and the news are not suggesting anything like murder or rape just highlighting the hypocrisy behind this organisation who are supposed to be such clean living above reproach people. Fun is fun, but when stuff like this is going on and people are feeling uncomfortable (which obviously he was if he ran away) it is not appropriate behaviour for adults in a position of responsibility. My heart goes out to this family also. I put up an article about it as I thought it may be of interest to some people simply for the reasons above.

  Beck - hi! No I don't know them. I left the borg about seven years ago.
• 

  joelbear

  like ripping off other guys underware

  fascinating

  send money

  Joel
• 

  Kep

  shalom,
  We must be related, I left about the same time too.
  If you're ever up these ways, drop me a line.
  I cant say I'd be down your part of the country in the near future, its cold enough up here.
  Cheers
  Kep
• 

  dungbeetle

  I totally agree with Xander.

  If you do any research on pedophilia, they don't just wake up one day and start having intercourse with a child. There is a continum the pedophile travels along, starting out with small gestures that increase in frequency, duration, intensity and boldness.

  Often, the pedophile 'sets up' his targets, and practices his art, with just such games as was described here. Although the photographs and underwear and so on COULD have been innocent fun (that's very hard to believe) in any case, they ARE well-known and established ways that pedophiles begin their career.

  I find it ridiculous that the members of the group didn't 'think to say anything'. That strains crudulity. The nature of the games themselves are a tip-off that something wasn't 'right' on that 'camping trip'; but the sworn to silence is also the biggest tip-off that all was not well that day. Assuming the facts have been accurately reported:

  _____________________________________________________________________

  Proof that this is not just a 'camping trip gone wrong'...

  1)the nature of the games and the adult participation. Healthy adults don't play these games. There is, in this game, a total lack of respect and appreciation for dignity of a person here. It is established conclusiviely that pedophiles and pre-pedophiles play games EXACTLY LIKE THIS.

  2)The delay between the child being missing and the call for authorities. This delay WAS plenty of time to fabricate stories, hide or destroy evidence, (such as footprints) and also time enough for any telltale forensic evidence to 'disappear'.

  3) Lack of forthrightness and cooperation of the entire camping party. "Didn't think to say it'? I don't THINK SO. Police are not this stupid ANYWHERE..I hope. More likely there was duress to keep silent--and one brave soul eventually spoke up. This ,too, is common where peophilia has existed.

  __________________________________________________________________

  You'll notice I didn't use Watchtower or JW or religion at all in my little commentary? It's not relevant and it wasn't necesary.

  The thing is, tho, there is, thanks to the good work of a lot of good people, and increased awareness of pedophilia among JW's. This is a good thing---except for pedophiles. Pedophiles are like addicts that need their fix; in this new atmosphere of awareness and iniative, pedophiles are finding it harder and harder to get their 'fixes'. They are going to have to work harder, plan more, and take many many more risks to get what they want.

  Parents..WATCH YOUR CHILDREN!!!! PLEASE!!!!
• 

  plmkrzy

  Valis said

  "Doesn't sound terribly sinister. If anything someone should have told the kid not to go off by himself"

  I haven't read through the entire thread yet but just wanted to say I totally agree with what Valis saud. The Worst and most irresponsible thing they did was to allow this kid to go off alone. This kind of tradgity happens too often to not know any better then that.
  Every time I hear of this kind of thing it makes me ache to think how easy it could have been one of my boys. It could happen to any of us.
  I am very sorry for the boys family and what they must be feeling.

  
  

  No matter how thin you slice it there are always two sides
• 

  signgirl

  Just emailed this story to a friend of mine, who comes from Christchurch, she has been dissasociated for 3 years happens to know Rami here is what she sent me.....................................

  thanks for the email - rami whose son went missing was the elder who got ron removed as an elder before he died for sexually abusing me and 18 others in the congregation who had brought accusations against him. this was 18 months ago. rami and his family have moved to the area where elons body was found as the people who live in the tiny town spent hours and hours searching for his body and showing them love. There is no congregation there. Rami's life story was in a Watchtower as he and his wife converted from Judaism to JW and he had been an israeli soldier - special forces. He was an elder and special pioneer and his wife a regular pioneer before this happenned and they had home schooled their kids and the kids spoke 4 languages and were very intelligent. I can believe rami is absolutely devastated. I read the news reports as dad gave them to me. Bro Mehrtens sat on my meeting with ron initially 9 years ago and said there was nothing that could be done as no witnesses to the events i reported - there had been no other accusations at that stage. This was the first time rami had let his sons go on something that he did not go too. Anyway - hope this fills you in a bit.