Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility? (page 15)

soft+gentle

I got to page 6 and need to come out in agreement with cantleave and phizzy.

replied further down the page

I can only go on my own experience, I'd visited this board a few times in researching talks when the scriptures were being discussed on here and showed up in google. I didn't mind reading others opinions, others research, others ideas, but as soon as the tone turned nasty, abusive, Insulting, i would click away from the site.

I could justify scriptural discussion no matter the source but i couldn't justify people slagging off my belief system. A PARTICULAR turnoff was people insultingly changing jehovahs name, or calling the Bible the lieble, or such..

I realise now how closed minded I was but, that's the way we're indoctrinated I guess. I can't help but think that if there was no ridicule, no insults, other lurkers might expedite their fading as I might have... I know that's not reasonable knowing how some of you have been treated..

Anyways, gotta go study my washtowel for the fleecing this morning! :-P

still thinking

Has this thread gone buggy? bump

soft+gentle

oops can't see my post to edit it. nevermind

here is what cantleave and phizzy said in response to lost and others (page 5)

lost said: would you walk into an obscure african village and call them stupid ?

cantleave said : You are confusing ideas with people again.

and heres is phizzy's point which is spot on too

Ridicule is probably more feared by people with indefensible ideas than mere facts and truth.

Why do you think Totalitarian regimes have always stamped on the Satirists. the Comics and the Cartoonists ?

The more we ridicule these silly beliefs the more it is thrown in to bold relief just how daft they are.

humour like ideas can put some distance between the receiver and the poster and allow them to take a fresh revealing look at a problem. so I suggest that if a person is feeling attacked they can remind themsevles of the above and also that this is the internet and not a face to face confrontation or an individual one either.

the other point I want to make is that todays discourse is conducted via science which to me means that the questions about who we are, what is our place is in the world etc is treated quite differently from religous discourse. So we are bound to lock horns with those how who insist on describing their place in the world through religious means and this can then lead to impasse ideally rather than deadlock so that both parties do have the option of simply letting the thread die.

bohm

Xan: That's right, I am saying that superstitious beliefs should not be ridiculed but that they should be discussed calmly and logically. Don't you think that ridicule is the last refuge of the intellectually challenged? -Xanthippe

That discussion basically goes like this:

Religion: Take me serious! take me serious! take me serious!

Science: okay, so why do you have the truth?

U CANT PROOVE I DONT & SCIENCE CANT PROOVE ITSELF WITH SCIENCE & HOW COULD NOTHING EXPLODE???!!!11!!!! I WIN!!!

moron

Take me serious! take me serious! take me serious! - Bohm

Well, my case rests. (thanks for calling me a moron)

Theres that poor reading comprehension again--

Those are by the way all arguments I have encountered multiple times on this site, the last one just a few days ago. And they are moronic, the kind of moronic that takes years of training to aquire.

Theists are crazy about pointless meta-discussions on how atheists should or should not behave, who are angry and who are not and if belief and faith and science is the same or not.

If you scan the threads for the past few months there has been very few who actually tried to demonstrate what should be the most fundamental thing, namely that a particular religious view were true. Heck, Jesus tell all christians to go and make deciples, why on earth should he tell them that if he has carefully arranged the world so that all they can offer are platitudes and silly pseudo-philosophical nonsence?

Cold steel, our resident Mormon appolegist, is the closest thing to a resent exception I can thing off, and he preferred to preach using PMs where he couldnt be critiziced.

I saw a documentary about Jehovahs Witnesses the other day, and the interviewer asked many of them why they belived they were right. All of them made an answer which was simply a variation of: "I choose to believe this is the truth", none of them even illuded to evidence.

That the bible is so readily open for redicule should give some pause. Historically, that an idea is open to satire and its defenders have "thats not funny!" and "you shouldnt make fun of it, it deserve respect!" as trustworthy retorts is not a good indicator.

still thinking

I can't help but think that if there was no ridicule, no insults, other lurkers might expedite their fading as I might have

And yet...here you are (welcome by the way ). And so are many other thousands of posters that have come and gone. It only turns away people who are not willing to listen to anything but their own opinions.

There are new members joining all the time...when THEY are ready...and not before.

Other people are not responsible for someones choice to leave or stay. They choose...themselves. Things may influence their decision. But ultimately. It is theirs.

Captain Blithering

STILL THINKING,

cheers buddy, i am INDEED here!

but my point was that I might have been here years ago if I wasn't (admittedly closed-mindedly) insulted by some of the speech I read on here in my research.

I'm not having a go, I'm purely telling it from my point of view, how I felt at the time. It was an immediate turnoff, like I could justify research, but not insults.. I CAN tolerate them now though, so insult away!!

still thinking

take that!

Glad you finally came to your senses and decided to join us...LOL

You came when you were ready...and that is all. We are not responsible for your self justification. And we should not have to cater to it. Otherwise this place would be a waste of time and space just catering to the whims of Jws still thinking like JWs. I'm sure you'd feel right at home..but what would you gain?

Lozhasleft

Otherwise this place would be a waste of time and space just catering to the whims of Jws still thinking like JWs.

I have to agree with you here Still. I remember being shocked at the disrespectful terms when I first arrived here. And it was painful sometimes having my faith challenged. BUT...the honest disrespect actually had the effect of removing any psychological power the WTBS still had over me. As for my faith, I believe if our faith is strong then no one can rip it away. Probably the biggest threat to it, is the cult itself. Having survived that, when it's challenged here it serves to force one to examine that faith. The result for me was a strengthening of it.

I agree with others though who find the insults out of order, it really shouldn't get personal.

Loz x

Ucantnome

On Wikipedia under the heading Rudeness it says

"Forms of rudeness: inconsiderate, insensitive, deliberately offensive, impolite..."

"Rude behavior is a violation of human diginity or of the respect due to others."

I thought that was quite interesting.

Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility?

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Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility?