AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets 162 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  144001

  <<<< I feel it is counter productive from some of the AAWA apologists here to continually take what they evidently feel is a higher ground by insulting the credentials and motives of the people who are questioning the legality of using a psuedonym in incorporation documents. The attitude is generally 'Are you an attorney? Then you don't know what you are talking about, so shut up'. I am privy to the email exchange with the ACC and know what questions were asked, and what were the responses. Though the ACC did reiterate that they are not an enforcement agency and do not get involved with legal matters such as determining whether or not criminal actions were committed, they do say the following:>>>>

  I feel it really counterproductive, and possibly legally actionable, to accuse forum members of criminal conduct, when no such allegations have been made by any governmental authority. I have no problem with the criticism that has been directed at AAWA and its founders, but if you choose to make allegations of criminal misconduct, you ought to be really certain before doing so, especially when you are directing your comments at someone who is fighting against the Watchtower.

  Even if your allegations were true, what is gained by making them? The only "gain" goes to the WTBTS, who may now label opposers as "criminals,"and/or who, because of your comments, may use their money to put pressure on law enforcement agencies to take action against certain individuals asscoiated with AAWA. Would that make you happy?

  AAWA's founders made mistakes and poor decisions, so you tried to get them busted by drawing attention to what you believe was an area of exposure. If you're looking for a pat on the back, think again. I'd be more likely to spit on you than to congratulate you.
• 

  jgnat

  The problem, RayPublisher, is that this one-time gaffe will have repercussions for months. Not everyone checks their facebook account daily. It is only as the facebook holder checks their group lists that they find out.

  Because of this issue I found out I was added to a group (not related to XJW's) without my knowledge.
• 

  wha happened?

  "Even if your allegations were true, what is gained by making them?"

  Seriously?
• 

  sabastious

  I apologise for the name calling. Sometimes it's not easy to keep 100% calm and reasonable when some idiot obsessive jerk is poking you in the face.

  You are going against posting guideline number 1. Does that mean you have to temp ban yourself? I'm glad I got your attention.

  So you're saying YOUR responsible then? Also, next month hosting bill is coming up soon ... can I forward it for your attention? LOL

  I am responsible for what I post, yes, as are you. I don't hold you responsible for what I post, however. My point was that just because you host this software doesn't give you authority over the intellectual rights of what is posted. However, you DO have every right to act like a ruthless dictator, or you can be a decent human being, up to you. It's not ME who made YOUR reputation of tyranny, that was all you, buddy. You made your bed, now sleep in it. No reason to whine about people naturally reacting to oppression and bullying. "When injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty." I'm all out of aphorisms.

  -Sab
• 

  okage

  @Las Malvinas: I intend no offense and apologize ahead of time for any I may cause you, but would it be at all possible to see a post of yours on an AAWA related thread that did not include the words "Arizona" or "Commission?" It really feels you are saying the same thing repeatedly and I've seen so many replies to your comments that this is something you should have had resolved personally by now.

  Again, no offense intended and I apologize for any offense I cause.

  @Sabastious: I will say this, Simon has a dickishness when it comes to his commentary on American politics during disasters. I even emailed him a while back about it. And I wasn't exactly nice. Do you know what that tyrant did to me? HE CLOSED MY ACCOUNT.

  Oh wait. No he didn't. Simon brushed it off as he is personally entitled to do and let me keep going on with some of my tirades as well as my efforts to unionize ex-jws. He doesn't need people fighting his battles for him, but when he says a topic needs to be dropped, it needs to be dropped. On several of these AAWA threads, many accusations were made about Cedars (who we need to remember is a friend to JWN) without evidence or proof. Accusations were made about the board, which contains a respectable mod from JWN, again without merit. If those conversations were to continue, indeed Godwin's Law would have been proven at least a dozen times.

  Cedars is Hitler.

  The AAWA are the New Reich.

  It's annoying as well as hazardous to relations on JWN. We have lurkers and people visiting for the first time and when they see people calling Cedars a criminal, they will disregard him and all of his associations. And all for accusations without evidences or proofs.

  A tyrant would have blocked you the moment you said anything critical of him. There would have been no back and forth.

  @JWN: Wakka Wakka Wakka
• 

  okage

  As for staying on topic, I feel it to be a slap in the face of the people who support the AAWA by John Cedars to incorporate a group under a pseudonym while allowing a security breach to continue that outs private identities.

  He's not Batman. He doesn't get to help people wearing a mask. Not if he wants to be taken seriously. And if he wants people to feel he can sympathize, he can take the same risks as anyone who signs up to volunteer or openly support his group.

  Looking down from an ivory tower is not the way to relate to people.
• 

  undercover

  Excuse me for hijacking the thread back from Sabastious, but -

  I'm finally going to weigh in here. Other than making a smartass comment or two, I havent said anything about this entire AAWA thing. No one really cares what I have to say about anything anyway, so why bother... but I'm gonna say it anyway and y'all can ignore it, flame it, like it, hate it. Don't give a shit. It's my opinion.

  Ever since the first thread that announced the AAWA, my spidey sense started tingling. Not sure why, I didn't expect it to blow up into the mess it did. But I had reservations about a group of ex-JWs creating a legal entity in order to fight the WTS. I saw some well respected names on the list of the founding group, so I hoped it might be a well run deal (how'd that work out?), but to me, our dealings with the WTS, its doctrines, the local elders, our JW family are personal fights and dealings. We each have to face our obstacles and do what we think is right for us personally. Some can be out front and flying the aposate flag with pride...others have to be coy and secretive, undermining the WTS authority from within, not to crush the Empire, but to free one or two people only.

  Face it. You're not going to bring down a 7 million person strong religion. You have to do what you can do to free yourself, your mate, best friend, parents, children. That, and the fact that I dont' want or need some group representing me is why I never took to the idea, nor gave thought of aligning myself with them in any kind of way. I'm a guerilla fighter. And my fight is for personal gain...my family. For no other reason and once I win that battle, the war is over for me.

  And as we all know, the more 'in your face' you are about the misdealings, and screwups, and screwed up doctrines you are about the WTS, the more you drive the sheeple under their protective cloak. Being out front, taking the fight to them does not help my family. It only gives them a persecution complex that makes it harder for me to undermine on the sly.

  I think more harm is done to the WTS by forums like this, where ideas and experiences are shared. Websites like JWFacts where factual information about the WTS is available for anyone to view it...without it being forced down their throat. Until a JW wants to question and see the information for themselves, they aren't going to look. But when they are ready, it's great to find a wealth of information on the 'net, without a provactive and antagonistic force trying to lead the way.

  My opinion, for what it's worth.

  Carry on...
• 

  Glander

  The positive thing that comes from this controversy is the core issue of why anonymity is so critical to the lives of people who want to withdraw from this cult without having their lives turned upside down.

  This is a scenario identical to the dilema of the French underground during the German occupation.
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  So we should just ignore possible illegal activity just because they are committed to bringing down the WT? How is is legally actionable to accuse people using a pseudonym of criminal conduct? Are you suggesting slander or libel? Whatever his name is, he's going to have a hard time convincing a court that his reputation is tarnished and that he cannot find a job because someone on an internet forum said "John Cedars" might be guilty of a felony. If that were the case most members here on JWN (you included) would have cases pending against them. Not looking for a pat on the back. I'd rather you do not touch me at all. And if you want to spit on me, then you can count on an equally repulsive response.

  okage - Nowhere in my last post did I include 'Arizona' or 'Commission'. I did use 'ACC'. Sorry about being repetitive, but when the tired old excuses of 'you are not an attorney' come up and I am asked to divulge my sources, I feel somewhat compelled to bring up the ACC. So far, no one has brought anything from an authority that is contrary to or contradicts what the stated position of the ACC is. What would be really helpful is if someone could get a comment from Richard Kelly, the AAWA's legal team coordinator and the incorporator of those documents. Maybe we'd see these comments disappear if he would tell us that no, everything is fine with the use of the pseudonym, and we have checked it out. Just a thought.
• 

  Watchtower-Free

  This whole uproar just proves the FACT .

  THIS Watchtower Corp IS A CULT