I've been studying for about a year now...

by Meow921 161 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    pathofhornes said:

    Most of the Witnesses you will encounter will not really know in detail their own history. This is something generally not discussed or taught.

    This is very true. I was born and raised a JW and I have family that are JWs who go back almost 60 years now, my grand parents use to study with "Bible Students" when my mother was a little girl and they still believed then that they were never going to be recognized as a "Religion" and you NEVER refered to a KH as a church. it was offensive.

    There are a lot of things that witnesses today that became witnesses in the last ten or twenty years are oblivious to about the past teachings but you wouldn't know that unless you were either there way before them or you studied the history because it just isn't discussed.

    It realy amazed me when I went back, after having been gone more then 15 years, how much a lot of witnesses didn't know. I didn't know how many views had changed either because when I left I didn't keep studying so when I went back trying to talk to people was a realy strange expierence for me. I thought I must have walked in the wrong door. "Uh...this IS still the KH isn't it?" I swear I wasn't sure how to take the looks I would get sometimes when I would bring up the past. I was responded to as though I must have been mistaken or confused. I know Damn well I was not confused!


    No matter how thin you slice it there are always two sides
  • You Know
    You Know

    Jerome thinks he knows what mind control is, then he proceeds to use some very subtle mind-control upon the unwary reader. Let's break it down here shall we and take note of the twisted and cunning reasoning Jerome is using.

    First off Jerome writes:

    That is why people call Witnesses brainwashed, because they believe anything the Watchtower tells them to no mater what the consequences.
    Stop and ask yourself, does trusting someone or an organization and believing in their credibility automatically mean that a person is brainwashed? Of course not. All of human civilization is build upon trust. The Watchtower has earned our trust over the years. Jeome says that we will follow the Wt regardless of the consequences. That sounds dire indeed. Just what consequences is Jerome alluding to? He doesn't say. He merely hopes to create an image in your mind of some sort of doomsday cult that drinks cynaide laced kool-aide whenever they are told by their master. Now let's consider the issue of the Watchtower and NGOs.

    Jerome goes on to write:

    It was discovered that the Watchtower themselves had applied for association and had obtained it for 10 years! Now when a Witness is confronted with this information and they realize that it is true they may justify it by any of the following methods.
    On this point Jerome is right. I personally was shocked that the Wt was an NGO. But what does that mean for the average JW? Absolutely nothing. Here's the difference, the religions of Christendom OPENLY advocate political solutions to mankind's problems. They don't believe that God's kingdom is a real government that is going to replace all human governments, so the religions of this world don't have a problem supporting the political institutions of this world. But as you probably know, God's kingdom is no part of this world, and so the Watchtower has always pointed out that Christians must be neutral as regards the various political institutions of this world. So, in that respect the Watchtower has not openly advocated our getting involved and supporting the UN's designs to bring peace. If they had then that would be a huge problem. But, as it is, it was only a very secretive connection that the Watchtower quickly dissolved when the story broke. Now consider the phoney reasoning that Jerome uses to try and manipulate your mind.

    In Jerome's mind the Watchtower's involvement as an NGO can only mean one thing: They are not Jehovah's organization. And that is the conclusion he wants you to draw based upon his own shallow reasoning. He wants you to make the same assumptions he has and he even walks you through a choice of reasonings that he wants you to chose for yourself. That's a very clever method of mind manipulation. He says that his personal favorite is:

    My personal favourite...Blame the Apostates!: "It would appear as though the apostates have somehow managed to force Jehovahs Organisation into a comprimising position with the UN this is shurley no matter to loose faith over."
    Jerome doesn't say why that is his favorite, nor does he say why it is wrong. He then makes an extrodinary leap and hopes that you will follow him without thinking for yourself. He writes:
    Reasoning is meaningless when confronted with this type of situation.
    Jerome has not used any reasoning but he wants to give you the impression that he has. Why is it not possible that apostate JW's from within the organization have tried to sabotage the Watchtower? Jerome doesn't say. He doesn't know. He has already made up his mind that there is only one conclusion to draw and that he wants to manipulate you to draw his same unthinking opinion. Is that not mind-control at it's worst? Surely the very thing that he accuses the Watchtower of is what he is practicing upon you. In actuality Jerome is merely ignorant. He doesn't know Jehovah. And he doesn't know what Jehovah's judgments are. I do.

    For example, is it really unthinkable that God would allow his organization to be infliterated by false brothers and traitors? No, the Scriptures actually foretold that very thing. Paul wrote the Corinthians and told them that there were those whom he called "super-fine apostles," who were in reality agents of the Devil operating right inside the congregation at that time. As a matter of fact, the anti-christ that 1st and 2nd John talks about is said to come from among those who were anointed. Too, think back to the fact that Judas was a trusted apostle of Christ before he betrayed him into death. So, obviously Jehovah DOES allow apostates to create havoc among his people. Jerome doesn't at all know what he is talking about nor has he used any sort of effective reasoning that you should allow to persuade your mind.

    BTW the poster known a You Know cannot defend many actions taken by the Watchtower because he knows that they are unethetcial but are true. he cannot defend lying to you just so that you can continue to be unified under the opinions of a few men.
    I am not a Watchtower's Witnesses. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And as such I can fully defend my faith as one of Jehovah's Witnesses using his word. There is in fact nothing that you can throw at me that I can't handle. / You Know

    "And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he (the king of the north)will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively." Daniel 11:32

  • Bang
    Bang

    As I said in an earlier post, their own words are best.

    Take notice though that no apostate was able to refute what I said about them being immoral.
    Your average person doesn't usually lack the humility to admit to that they're truly a sinner.

    Watchtower has made numerous mistakes .... that are now an embarrasment to them. That's neither here nor there though, because Jehovah doesn't look for the things of error.
    Have you heard them say that in regard to others?

    They are under the delusion that Christ is not going to arrive any time soon, that he is delaying
    I don't need to be looking to future dates or 'soon' - He's here with me right now.

    The whole line of reasoning of apostate Jehovah's Witnesses is that if we have been wrong on this or that then that means that we can't be Jehovah's organization as we claim.
    Wrong. Most people know arrogance when they experience it - couple that with a hypocritical selfishness and it gets people rather upset - jealous for God so to speak.

    The organisation stopped using the KJV as it can't support their ideas - it's no coincidence that none of the other serious translations weren't quite 'accurate' enough for them. There were too many questions and no answers - they don't like giving those answers if they're not prepared - and they really don't like it if they are prepared and it falls short - That's when You must be "mentally diseased" or something, but enough of that.

    Check out the fruit - it's simple. You'll see that they're not in the habit of giving, and hey, I'll admit that's not my business - but it does let me know exactly who they are - it's always the tell tale sign.

    Bang

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Good Morning YOU KNOW

    I am not a Watchtower's Witnesses. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And as such I can fully defend my faith as one of Jehovah's Witnesses using his word. There is in fact nothing that you can throw at me that I can't handle. / You Know
    Have you had a chance to think of Rev 22:12?

    The "Watchtower's Witnesses'" history of the "deep" meanings for this scripture is on page one of this thread. As "one of Jehovah's Witnesses" what do you believe to be accurate? Please keep in mind that if you harbor any other belief other than that of the Watchtower's current stand, (if you can figure out which stand they take) you would be an apostate, owning all the characteristics you have described in this thread.

    I ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE!

  • TheStar
    TheStar
    Take notice though that no apostate was able to refute what I said about them being immoral. That's because they can't. So the bottom line for you is that you are being taught by people who have no regard for Jehovah's godship. They want to give you the impression that they are concerned for your spiritual welfare. But how could that possibly be the case when they have repudiated the very foundation of morality and integrity? Their issues are way beyond the Watchtower.

    I think Bang said it beautifully but I'd just like to ask you one thing, You Know.

    Does the fact that elders are alloweed to continue in the congregation free and clear to molest young innocent children over and over again show that the WT and JWs are more moral than the rest of us? As Bang said, at least we are moral enough to admit we are sinners.

  • You Know
    You Know

    Will Power writes:

    Please keep in mind that if you harbor any other belief other than that of the Watchtower's current stand, (if you can figure out which stand they take) you would be an apostate, owning all the characteristics you have described in this thread.

    Nonsense. The brothers at Bethel know my views and they have never accused me of apostasy. / You Know

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    When did YOU KNOW start reading hearts?

    Typical cult mindset, "if you don't think & do like me you are satan's evil helpers."

    Smacks a little of haughty presumptuousness, not at all like a "mature christian."

  • You Know
    You Know
    Does the fact that elders are alloweed to continue in the congregation free and clear to molest young innocent children over and over again show that the WT and JWs are more moral than the rest of us? As Bang said, at least we are moral enough to admit we are sinners.

    That's a lie. Elders that are found guilty of child abuse are automaticaly removed as elders and more than likely they are disfellowshipped. And according to the Watchtower's written policy any man that has a history of abuse even before he became a brother can NEVER serve in any capacity in any congregation. / You Know

  • You Know
    You Know

    Will Power says:

    When did YOU KNOW start reading hearts?
    Typical cult mindset, "if you don't think & do like me you are satan's evil helpers." Smacks a little of haughty presumptuousness, not at all like a "mature christian."

    I have never claimed to be able to read hearts, but I can read English. The scripture says that apostates are like a raging sea that foams up its own cause for shame. It doesn't take miraculous powers of insight to read what apostates put in print. Anyone who is even marginally literate can see that apostates are immoral. You post your own causes for shame for everyone to read. You even boast of your own sexcapades and mock Christian decency. And all xdubs are quick to congratulate each other for their immorality. Why would anyone possibly need to read hearts to know what apostate JW's are all about?

    In the first letter of John there is a very simple formula that is repeated throughout that apostolic letter: 1 John 3:7-8 reads: "Little children, let no one mislead you; he who carries on righteousness is righteous. He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning."

    That's pretty plain and straightforward, isn't it? So it is not at all cultish or presumptuous, not is it immature, to recognize you for what you are. / You Know

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    I have been studying for over 3 years now and finally find someone who says that there is nothing he can't handle.

    In response to my inquiries of Rev. 22:12, is this your idea of handling it?

    Nonsense. The brothers at Bethel know my views and they have never accused me of apostasy. / You Know
    I would never call you an apostate, a god hater. The watchtower's view of an apostate is an insult to God, and a blashpheme against the Spirit. You obviously love Jehovah and in your own mind feel you are standing up. I only want to know who you think is coming in Rev 22:12, the alpha/omega as described in the next sentence?

    I am not a Watchtower's Witnesses. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And as such I can fully defend my faith as one of Jehovah's Witnesses using his word.
    Isn't the definition of Jehovah's Witness defined in one of the baptismal questions? And anyone in Jehovah's Organization believes even those things that are unique to them & once they stop, they are no under the protection of God's Organization, even tho they might not have been officially or publically removed?

    Please concentrate on the Rev. scripture, the above questions were just food for thought.

    There is in fact nothing that you can throw at me that I can't handle. / You Know
    p.s. FYI I am not an apostate.

    edited for spelling & format, sorry

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