What evidence is there for Jesus (NOT USING THE BIBLE)?

by punkofnice 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest

    I don't go in for religion, either, dear Hort (peace to you!). But you know what they say: "One man's trash... another man's treasure." I think that can cut both ways: for religion... and against it.


    A slave of Christ,


  • Heaven

    Hey! What about my graffitti!

    Sorry I'm a bit late to this but just wanted to say that pic looks like it was done with an Etch a Sketch.

  • LV101

    It's been stated on board at one time or another that the "Golden Rule" goes back to another prophet/deity 2 or 3 BC? Can't recall who it was.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    We know what certain Church Fathers believed hundreds of years later. I suggest reading some academic work b/c it does not support your faith-colored glasses. There was diversity within the church almost from the moment when Jesus was resurrected.

    This literature sells well. Every scholar I read as a slightly different take on the situation. If the tradition were passed down the way you beleive, only Orthodoxy would have existed. What I found personally moving was how many Jesus sayings in the Gnostics resemble those in the canonical gospels.

    The Pope believes this strand. I do not.

    Further, I am convinced Jesus, the historical person, would be scared out of his wits by Christianity. We have no contemporary literature that mentions Jesus. When you consider his acclaim by the locals mentioned in the gospels, his absence from any other tradition is striking. There is a perhaps a slight kernel of the authentic Jesus in church tradition. This is fact, not supposition or reading selectively.

  • AGuest
    There was diversity within the church almost from the moment when Jesus was resurrected.

    I mean absolutely NO disrespect but sincere curiosity: do you believe the bolded part (mine) of what you stated? Again, just curious. If not, can you clarify your comment? If so, on what do you base your belief?

    Thank you.

    A slave of Christ,


  • FlyingHighNow

    LV, my point about the Golden Rule and living by the sword/dying by the sword is that if Jesus truly went by those rules then he's cool with me. If he had been a do unto others before they do unto you and felt like his followers needed to arm themselves to the teeth, I wouldn't be impressed. Those are two things off the top of my head that I read that I could agree with as sensible, especially for a teacher/leader living under Roman occupation.

    Much more interesting to read about DNA and biology and fossils.

    I find them interesting to read about, too. I love the histories of people and nations, empires as well.

  • jam

    The most powerful evidence for Jesus existence as a man

    and not the Messiah.

    What,s the opinion of the Jews, they were there.

    Christians argued with Jews over the matter (Jesus the

    Messiah) as they tried to show that despite universal ex-

    pectation to the contrary. God's Messiah was in fact supposed

    to suffer and die. The Christians appealed to scriptures of the

    Jews that never mention the Messiah (Isaiah , Psalms, etc),

    but they speak of someone suffering; they urged their potential

    converts that these are in fact prophecies of the Messiah.

    The Jews responded, by pointing out that these passages never

    mention the Messiah and were never understood prior to the

    Christian reinterpretations to be referring to the Messiah.

    Why is that so familiar, sounds just like the WT.

  • MrFreeze

    I don't really doubt that there was a man named Jesus who lived 2000 years ago. I do doubt that he was some sort of god.

  • still thinking
  • OnTheWayOut


    This subject is like lightning to believers of any kind, be they fundamentalists or just casual believers. Anyone dares to offer any kind of suggestion that there wasn't at least a man to fit the bill and KABOOM, they strike.

    It appears that the very idea of a suffering messiah of some kind was already developed by the time a man to fill the role of Jesus would have been born.

    But rather than suggest that there wasn't such a man, I would suggest that there were plenty of people willing to die for their beliefs and at least one of them would be close enough to the already-developed legend to simply fill in the rest of the story decades after his death and make him into the legend of Jesus (or a rose by any other name).

    Heck, we could probably create the legend of the guy with the Romney-Ryan tattoo on his face being the martyr for the cause against Obama the antichrist. If our nation fell within a few decades, and hard information were difficult to come by, our legend just might become the larger-than-truth reason for the whole collapse of the United States. I mean, we read about our wonderful forefathers like they could do no wrong. We hear how the pilgrims came to America to escape "religious persecution." History always get re-written to cast people in roles as villians and someone must be the heros, even if we have to make them into such.

    I have learned my lesson. The forces that be will strike like lightning at the suggestion that "Jesus" did not exist. FINE. Several men who weren't divine died for their beliefs and did so after inspiring people to think boldly and differently. One of them became the guy in the gospels.

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