by irondork 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In the video, Mr. Piper made the comment that God created male and female. THAT is the sexuality he created and any variation on that is a deviation from what is normal.
On the surface, that sounds like a sound argument. I hope to have some time this evening to sit down and respond to it.
iron: im sorry the video was not what you were looking for, i thought piper did a good job at explaining the relationship with homosexuals and idols and talked about doing vs having a struggle with feelings, and i did read your opening post, if it means anything im keeping you in my prayers.
This makes me sad. Better to accept yourself for what you as a logical, moral human being know inside yourself as being right, than to try to claim some ancient writings accept it too, right?
The Bible is a terrible moral compass. It condones a lot of things that are actually criminal, violent and psychologically hurtful to others.
Re pedophilia being declassified...to my knowledge that is not happening. Every year there are changes in diagnostic codes. Every decade or so, the psychiatrists' professional association publishes a manual on how to determine diagnoses, along with criteria, called DSM.
Classification of pedophilia as a mental disorder means little IMO. It's criminal behavior that has no effective medical treatment. It's sick, wrong and criminal. Having personally treated people with actual mental illnesses, and pedophiles, it is my opinion that pedophilia is not a mental disorder. It's just a crime.
Homosexuality as a mental disorder back in the dark ages of psychiatry, in an era of overuse of shock treatment and many barbaric treatments--well put it in that context. It was always a source of ridicule for psychiatry to have homosexuality be a diagnosis.
I must lift my hat to our friend irondork for his patience in responding to Cold Steel and unstopableravens among others. I can only believe that the reason he engages and responds to them is in the hope that some other reader will benefit from the discussion as it is clear that the aforementioned have unwavering opinions. The fundamentalist Christianity they profess is all too common in our day. It is rigid, condemnatory, unsympathetic and self-righteous. It is little wonder that it is losing its appeal and turning many people away from any desire to get to know Jesus Christ.
I still believe in God and the Bible. However, I have found that belief in them and adherence to fundamentalism are incompatible. The fundamentalist takes scripture out of context and then twists it to suit his interpretation. In this way, many evils have been practiced and condoned in the past because those who engaged in it could always cite some biblical passage in support. That is what eisegesis is all about and the fundamentalist takes an eisegetical approach in reading and studying the Bible. The opposite of this is exegesis, which looks at the original language, the context and the time period in which the writing was done. That approach takes much more time and patience and so many avoid using it altogether.
I have found Cold Steel’s bigotry to be unpalatable. The oversimplification and gross generalization he employs is the same that I heard racists use to justify their beliefs and attitudes. His patronizing and condescending attitude, which he believes is proof of his open-mindedness, is nothing of the kind. He says he knows of no commentators who don’t believe the Bible condemns homosexuality unreservedly. That is because he simply hasn’t looked hard enough. There is plenty of literature available which expounds on the points irondork has presented in this thread. I suggest that Cold Steel look a little harder if he really wants to get the views of other scholars on this question. He points to the eisegetical straw in the eye of Jehovah’s Witnesses while ignoring the rafter in his own.
Quendi
lol yeah im unsympethic and iron, is patient i think hes a nice guy. just because i believe strongly does not make me ignorant.
Ignorance comes in if you have shut the door on considering different opinions and proofs. You can believe strongly all you want, that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
Of course its possible to find scholars who offer alternative interpretations of absolutely any biblical topic.
Both the Old and New Testaments condemn homosexuality. There is no way of getting away from that without performing agonising mental gymnastics.
Unlike 1st Century Jews we know that homosexuality is not a choice or a perversion. The mistake is to take the bible as anything other than the opinions of fallible men who were products of their culture.
mrsjones: not holding punches i see
What, you want me to play nice and hold your hand? I'm not your mama.
hmm no your hubby may not like that,
