"Right to bear arms" should mean ... (page 49)

Berengaria

Exactly, so how has there been at least a hundred pages of horse shit in the last 3 days?

sooner7nc

LOL Horseshit is the power source around here.

Low-Key Lysmith

Exactly, so how has there been at least a hundred pages of horse shit in the last 3 days?

remember what I said about "same old, tired shit"? Welp, there you go. My own same ol' tired shit included.

cedars

TD

When was the last time you were face to face with a wild animal large enough to hurt you?

When was the last time you were attacked by a wild animal?

That would have been the last time I called the authorities to notify them that a dangerous animal was on the loose that THEY needed deal with, confident that they would respond quickly and effectively. Fortunately, that hasn't happened yet.

In any case - to drag this back on to the bigger picture... what would you prefer? The right to shoot bears that wander into your street or garden, or the right to send your child to school with extra confidence that he or she won't get shot by a madman? That's what this is really about... priorities.

Cedars

sammielee24

LKL says " You refuse to grasp that maybe the problem in America is with society itself. That the media sensationalizes things, that GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Our flawed, frightened, violent, society is the problem. "

--

Wow. When I said I believe that some Americans live in fear which drives their need for guns - I was told NO, it isn't fear it's preparation. So - what is the reason? Two gun owners - one doesn't see it as fear and the other does....how do you expect the rest of the world to figure it out and then toss in the right to bear arms or as I heard some politician make a comment to the effect of 'a free people with guns are the only defense against the tyranny of their government'. Are you afraid of your government? Are you afraid of the guy in the mall? Are you afraid of the little girl skipping rope on the sidewalk? If you own a gun you must be prepared to kill when you fire it - and that means that if you are prepared to kill - that every morning you wake up and put a gun on your person, you are prepared to kill. That is the logical assumption. That equates to the training of the military when they mentally and emotionally have to engage in war and must be prepared to kill every time they fire. People just try to understand.

I have no problem with target shooters but I don't think you need to have a million weapons to enjoy the sport and there are many ways to enjoy it without even owning a gun. Mental health changes really won't address the issue. If this kid has mental health issues and his own mother took him to the range, kept a lot of guns and ammo in the house legally - what was her obligation to society? Should every person on medication, or every family that has a member who is mentally unstable for any reason have to refrain from owing and keeping guns? How many people would just lie and say there were no problems? That issue is very complex.

The reason for having the types of weapons that people do is part of the problem. That needs to be addressed as much as mental health issues need to be addressed - sammieswife

Mary

Low-Key said: I just don't think that gun laws are going to have any effect. None. It is time to take responsibilty as a nation. We need to figure out what makes our people do these things. If we could magically make all guns disappear, that would be fantastic.

Low-Key, 'taking responsibility as a nation' involves something you don't want to hear: stricter gun laws. That's not the only issue but it's a major one. No one needs a semi-automatic rifle in their home (unless you plan on hunting humans). Mental health is also a huge issue but trying to fix that would also involve something that many Americans don't want to hear: government run health care. The break-down of society as a whole, lack of stability in a person's life, the way the media almost 'glorifies' these tragedies by giving the shooter most of the attention, coupled with easy access to some very powerful weapons and unlimited ammunition, are all contributing factors in these shootings.

The argument that drugs are illegal yet still a huge problem doesn't wash. Would it be better if crack cocaine or heroin were legal for anyone and everyone to use as they wanted? How 'bout them being made available to 6 year olds in school? The laws don't get rid of the problem entirely, but at least there is something in place. Drinking and driving are also illegal, and the laws do not prevent tragedies from happening 100% of the time. Does that mean that it shouldn't be made illegal to get behind the wheel of a car after getting drunk at the local bar?

I don't think Simon or anyone else on here 'hates Americans'---I certainly don't. If we did, we'd tell you to 'carry on' as usual. The fact that we've expressed great concern for what's going on in your country should tell you that it's not motivated by 'hate'.

Simon

Yeah, I don't buy the 'dangerous animals' argument either. Do people think a bear is going to break into their house to get them? That they are going to hunt them down as they drive to the mall? The argument is weak beyond belief. We're 30 minutes from the Rockies, we have bears and cougars (no, the cat, not the older woman type) and the danger they pose is negligible. In fact, firearms are not allowed in the national parks where most of them live but millions of visitors seen to make it out alive.

So this 'when did you last come face to face with a dangerous animal' is either bullshit or the same paranoid fear being manifest again.

You don't need a gun to scare a bear away ... just make some noise, worst case use bear spray. Everyone lives.

If you think you need a semi-automatic rifle with a 100 capacity magazine then you need to get a freakin' clue and grow a pair.

EntirelyPossible

If you think you need a semi-automatic rifle with a 100 capacity magazine then you need to get a freakin' clue and grow a pair.

You do realize that, despite your constant refrain of the 100 round capacity magazine, those are not common at all, right? I mean, none of my 5 rifles has a 100 round capacity magazine, despite the fact that three of them are semi-automatic. None of my friends has one, I've never seen one at the gun club I am a member of, either.....

TD

That would have been the last time I called the authorities to notify them that a dangerous animal was on the loose that THEY needed deal with, confident that they would respond quickly and effectively. Fortunately, that hasn't happened yet.

Oh good grief Cedars! For those of us most likely to come face to face with a wild animal, a phone call is often impossible in the locations where it is most likely to happen. Rugged mountains interfere tremendously with cell phone coverage and even were that not the case, you could still be 50km+ from emergency services of any kind for any number of reasons.

What, for example would you do in the following situation?

You've gone fishing on the San Carlos Apache reservation with two friends. You're cooking a meal on a portable stove after a day of fishing. You notice a strange dog at the edge of the clearing. It's impossible to tell what breed he is, but he's very large. He won't respond to your voice even though you're very good with dogs. He just stares at you. Soon he's joined by another dog. --And another and another and another, until there are more than ten of them. Now they're growling, snarling and pacing back and forth. The leader charges you and the others follow.

You can Google feral dogs if you want. They're a big problem in the American Southwest. They injure adults regularly and kill children from time to time. I'm genuinely curious if you really think a phone call would fix the situation described above because it actually happened to me. Maybe it was wrong for us to shoot half of them. Maybe we should have called the Tribal police and waited for two hours.

In any case - to drag this back on to the bigger picture... what would you prefer? The right to shoot bears that wander into your street or garden, or the right to send your child to school with extra confidence that he or she won't get shot by a madman? That's what this is really about... priorities.

This bigger picture is about compromise. If it's not about compromise and it's simply about imposing Euro-style gun legislation upon America, then pointing out actual scenarios where guns do have legitimate utility is not a conflation of the discussion, because America is not Europe and we don't have authorites within minutes of us all the time or even most of the time.

"Right to bear arms" should mean ...

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