more abuse in today's watchtower study

by solomon 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • LisaRose

    New Chapter, I agree with what you said. I have taken anti-depressants in the past. They work great in the short term, but can become ineffective over time. If you have not addressed some of the thinking patterns that may have led to the problem in the first place, you could be right back where you started. I used to think that taking anti depressants for depression was the same as taking insulin for diabetes. But the situation is more complex than that. Anti depressants do not exactly match the chemical balance of a normal, healthy brain. And negative thought patterns can change the chemical balance of the brain. It's interactive. A bad reaction to the drug Cymbalta forced me to try to approach the problem differently, and start working at the thought patterns that contributed to my depressed state.
    It is not just thinking positive, it is more complex and difficult than that. In my case, it was learning to forgive myself for my mistakes, something that was my nature, but was aggravated by my upbringing and by being a JW.

    Not that I am against anti-depressants, they can be a life saver, especially in the short term.

  • betterdaze

    When you face adversity, take advantage of the help Jehovah has provided

    Bible study, meetings, field service. Hmm... Where are the spirit-appointed "gifts in men" when you need them?

    Could this be just another legal department article to avoid liability because clueless, uncaring elders dole out bad advice?

    From the following article, What Kind of Spirit Do You Show?:

    Elders may make mistakes that affect us personally. If that happens, how inappropriate it would be for any member of the congregation to react according to the world’s spirit, vehemently demanding “justice” or that “something be done about this brother”! Jehovah may choose to overlook certain minor failings. Can we not do the same? Because of what they perceive as defects in the elders, some individuals who engage in serious wrongdoing in the congregation have refused to appear before a committee of elders assigned to help them. This could be likened to a patient who loses out on the benefits of a treatment because he does not like something about the doctor.

  • 00DAD

    JW GoneBad: My guess is that the ‘sister’ in the pictures is suffering from some sort of depression associated with low self-esteem.

    I would respectfully disagree. The doctor in the picture has a stethoscope around his neck which is a subtle clue as to the kind of medicine he practices.

    Jehovah Gives Medical Advice

    Doctors that deal with depression would not likely have a stethoscope as a prop.

    Notice the caption. Apparently Jehovah now provides medical advice.


  • jam

    I may be wrong, but didn,t the WT indicate in regards to the

    increase in partakers (144000) that some may have mental problems?

    If so what the hell. (Elder;) Sister you partook this year. (Sister)

    yes brother I took your advice, increase my time in service and prayed

    a lot. I am not deperss any more. (Elder) but sister are you sure. I would

    suggest you look over the article about those who partake that is

    unworthy. (Sister) why brother. (Elder) because we have a lot of nuts

    in this organization, starting from the top.

  • WTWizard

    Chemical imbalances or none, the very rules of the washtowel cause much of the depression found therein. You can't do anything that would make you feel good about yourself. Listen to (or, worse, play) music, decent work, a hobby--all trashed. Give up video games, computer activity, study of worthwhile material, art, science--and if you do anything and feel good about it, you sinned. That's on top of not being allowed to enjoy things that normal human beings enjoy (things like Christmas and birthdays). Throw in no future, and the constant shame and guilt for not doing enough, and you have the cause of the problem.

    Trying to get people to do more of what caused the problem or made an existing one worse as a "cure" only ensures that they will just keep on doing more of it. They get worse, and it's "because they are still not doing enough". This is almost as bad as the medical scams--such as fluoride for teeth (fluoride can actually cause cavities and ruin teeth, not make them healthier). Any time the "cure" is to do what causes the disease, whether fluoride, cholesterol management, weight control, or this rubbish about going to boasting sessions to be beat up on for depression, you have a situation where people are going to suffer for nothing.

  • l p
    l p

    NewChapter: Maybe I was an half-hour late giving my daughter a dose of medicine. Well this was just unforgivable! I must not love her. Now the medication won't work properly! Maybe she'll get sicker. Maybe she'll die. That would make me a murderer of my own child. I'm a horrible person. I'm worthless. So much better if I wasn't born. I'm the worst mother in the world. If I was dead, someone better could take care of her.

    Although you don't say this but I think its important to be clear for readers if someone is thinking in a pattern like this. They really should be assessed by a psychiatrist and not just a general practitioner. The reason is this type of thinking is a symptom of mental illness and would need a comprehensive mental health assessment to diagnose and get treatment right. So the priority should be an assessment by a psychiatrist.

    However your point is that sometimes thinking can be erroneous for want of a better word and there is therapy that mental health professionals use to treat patients call cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT). But it is more important to get someone acutely ill treated with medication.


  • jeremiah18:5-10

    Not all cases of depression are due to "chemical imbalances" are they? Some depression can be environmantal, in other words a result of situations and circumstances you are contending with on a day-to-day basis.

    In either case, what causes or brings on the depression is not as clear as the effect of the depression.

    My wife, after the birth of our second child, began experiencing more intense depression. For years we had viewed each other as being one of us pessimistic (her) and the other optimistic (me) and that this was why we dealt with situations differently. We even considered it Jehovah's "blessing" that we were this way and were together so we could balance each other. Looking back on this now makes me embarrassed that I ever thought this way. In any case my approach to my wife was as follows (and IMO identifies a root problem in the common approach to depression by many)

    I would note that my wife was apathetic, unproductive, irritable, and lacked motivation. So I would be "sensitive" and ask her "What's wrong?"

    My wife would reply, "I don't know." I would then, in my infinite wisdom, begin a long, drawn out conversation breaking down everything that's been going on and agonizingly drag her thru each event over the last several days thinking at some point I would be able to isolate a specific thing and be able to proclaim "Aha! that's what it is" bada-bing bada-boom, your fixed!

    Of course this didn't work, it only served to create more tension and add to the already gloomy situation.

    The problem really is that a person, when depressed (whether clinical or environmental) cannot think straight. They don't have the ability to pause, rewind, isolate, and solve. To ask them to do so is ridiculous. They lack energy, drive, stamina, motivation, and joy. They simply cannot bring themselves to do things like read the Bible, go to meetings, pray, exercise, etc. They may have moments where they feel better and are able to do some of these things, but by and large, they simply can't sustain it. They need help to be able to regain perspective, focus, and in many cases this help can only come in the form of presribed drugs/meds, combined with QUALIFIED assistance from a TRAINED PROFESSIONAL.

    A person that hasn't experienced depression beyond momentary "down" feelings of disappointment, cannot comprehend what a depressed person is going through. It's not momentary for them. It's not disappointment for them. It is real and it is debillitating mentally and physically. I learned this through experience and effort to never forget it. No amaount of mental effort on the part of the depressed person can "solve" it. They may never "solve" it. Thhey may learn to live with it, but usually it is only because of getting the proper assistance from "QUALIFIED" resources.

    Something that helped me to understand it better was thinking of the "depressing" of a brake pedal. To depress the brakes, one applies pressure to the pedal and forces it down and maintains the pressure until coming to a stop. The pedal is "depressed". The pedal has no say over it, it only receives the pressure and goes down and stays down. A depressed person is pressed down by pressure from an outside source (whether environmental or chemical) beyond their control and they have little to no say over the source of pressure of the effect. They simply must cave under it and must wit for the pressure to subside (due to qualified assistance).

    I truly feel the WTS and their cronies try to equate disappointment to depression and that is a fundamental flaw in their approach and their presribed solution. Reading the Bible, praying, meeting attendance may very well help a JW experiencing disappointment, but it has little to do with assisting a depressed soul.


  • rickisteel

    i didnt like the placebo illustration , my wife (who has bi polar disorder) felt it was written by someone who doesnt fully understand deppression or bi polar disorder and it made her feel low as if she isnt doing enough thats why she is poorly


    I think that this issue depends on how we are all interpreting the word "depression" Just saying oh I lost my job, I am depressed doesnt mean that you are clinically depressed. It almost would have been better if the medical profession used a different term than just "depression" to mean clinical, chemical based depression. How many of us say that we are depressed sometimes, but we all dont pop pills for it.

    Anyway getting back to the thread comments I believe the WT is actually referring to the non-clinical depression in this article. Even the CO's admit now in our elders meetings that some may need medication to control the various "depressions" that plaugue many today. America seems to be rife with clincally depressed people, not just JWs either.

  • Left in the Cold
    Left in the Cold

    When in the hospital, we had many group therapy sessions, but one thing stands out in my mind. The counselor told us we were all there because we have a chemical imbalance plus some type of major additional stressor(s). I took it to mean that a person can have the stressor and without a chemical imbalance, likely get through it ok. It's a combination of both that often causes major depression. I know it's a simple statement, but it made me understand things better.

    Depression is the main cause of suicide. Obviously, right? Anxiety is number two. When I think about that I think about how I made myself go to meetings even though it was, in hindsight, the worse thing to do. It is for many people. I had many panic attacks at the kh. One person told me not to be scared. The brothers and sisters there were all my "friends". Funny thing. I always thought they were staring at me and judging me in my mind when these attacks occurred. I think now I have reason to believe many were. (Not everyone, of course.)

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