Believers, do you believe in evolution?

by everchangingworld 159 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter
    In short, we believe in life after death and after that, a resurrection of the body for a life after that life in heaven.

    I don't understand this. It seems to be a two parter:

    we believe in life after death: In what form?

    AND AFTER that, a resurrecton of the body for a life after that life in heaven: Is this a physical life AFTER having a life in heaven? What form did the life in heaven take?

    Also, I would shy away from 'we believe' because seriously, what I have received from this board, is that nobody ever seems to agree on these issues. Every person has their own individual spin on the subject.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    I don't understand this. It seems to be a two parter:

    It is.

    we believe in life after death: In what form?

    Spirit form in Heaven.

    AND AFTER that, a resurrecton of the body for a life after that life in heaven: Is this a physical life AFTER having a life in heaven? What form did the life in heaven take?

    Physical form on Earth.

    Also, I would shy away from 'we believe' because seriously, what I have received from this board, is that nobody ever seems to agree on these issues. Every person has their own individual spin on the subject.

    What I mentioned is orthodox teaching and while denomination may vary on the minor points, the core is the same.

    While the notion of the afterlife in heaven may differ from what group to another, the resurrection of the dead and life in the world to come is a core Christian doctrine, example is the end of the Nicene Creed:

    We look for the resurrection of the dead,
    and the life of the world to come.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Catholic catechism:

    366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection. 235

    1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face: 598

    990 The term "flesh" refers to man in his state of weakness and mortality. 536 The "resurrection of the flesh" (the literal formulation of the Apostles' Creed) means not only that the immortal soul will live on after death, but that even our "mortal body" will come to life again. 537

    991 Belief in the resurrection of the dead has been an essential element of the Christian faith from its beginnings. "The confidence of Christians is the resurrection of the dead; believing this we live." 538

    1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:

    The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ. 631

    1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth." 632 It will be the definitive realization of God's plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth." 633

    1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men. 634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away." 635

    1045For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament." 636 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, "the holy city" of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." 637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community. 638 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.

    1046For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:

    For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 639

    1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ. 640

  • PSacramento
  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Many times on this board I have asked Christians that believe in both evolution and souls; at what point in evolution did God insert a soul into humans? I have never received an answer. This was why Darwin’s presentation of evolution in The Origin of the Species caused such a stir. It was argued by the church that if we descended from apes we could not have a soul, which amounted to heresy at the time. More importantly, do gladiators have souls?

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    PS, I think you are playing a word game with me. Is it to avoid the question?

    God creates a spiritual soul that is immortal and separates from the body at death. It will be reunited with the body at ressurection.

    Okay.

    I am talking about that soul itself---not its destination! The soul that was created by god, and that leaves the body at death---we are not discussing what happens after that.

    You believe that humans have a soul and it is immortal.

    My question: If you also believe in Evolution, at what point did God create souls for our ancestor? Did God watch the process of evolution and then decide, NOW is the time to create souls for them? At what point would that have happened. There has to be a moment, a line. Was a child born and then God decided, now? Was this reserved only for H. sapien? When sapien interbred with Neanderthal, were they reproucing with souless creatures, or did Neanderthal have a soul? How about H. erectus? Did they have souls?

    Was it possible that parents existed without souls, but their children had souls because that is where the line had been drawn?

    Do you understand the question? I don't know how to make it more clear. When did humans get souls? That immortal part of ourselves that survives death and was created by God. The part that can live with or without a physical body. Did Lucy have a soul? Did our ancestors have souls? Did species we interbred with have souls?

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Many times on this board I have asked Christians that believe in both evolution and souls; at what point in evolution did God insert a soul into humans? I have never received an answer. This was why Darwin’s presentation of evolution in The Origin of the Species caused such a stir. It was argued by the church that if we descended from apes we could not have a soul, which amounted to heresy at the time. More importantly, do gladiators have souls?

    Glad, I didn't expect it to be so complicated. It is frustrating, I will admit. First it is a semantics argument. I think the question is clear, but it gets mucked up with words. I'm not interested in what happens to that soul at death. That is another discussion. I'm interested in when that soul was created, and where in evolution it was inserted.

    Glad, you don't have a soul. Don't feel bad. I don't have one either. The BIG question is, did Neanderthal have a soul?

  • everchangingworld
    everchangingworld

    I am really curious to know what is the basis for believing that humans have a soul separate from the body. Is it just a hunch?

  • tec
    tec

    More importantly, do gladiators have souls?

    I think you're covered, Glad ;)

    Indeed, everyone is covered, including animals... for these were also brought INTO the Garden (a spiritual place).

    Spirit is what we are... 'underneath' the flesh.

    Peace to you,

    tammy

  • everchangingworld
    everchangingworld

    Do cockroaches have souls? Rats?

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