by tec 149 Replies latest jw friends
Is that why he didn't codemn slavery? Now it all makes sense it's all a big f'ckd up property dispute! I just love to think of myself as property, don't you?
He would not have said slavery is wrong. It would appply only when it's obvious who the superior is (wax on wax off). If someone can create fire and water out of Nothing, you should kneel before them should you not? I cannot create water from Nothing , I can only be what evolution has dictiated for me.
-Sab
Paul repeatedly mentions that "we are nothing but good for nothing slaves".
Maybe Paul was being a bit melodramatic. But it's understandable giving his circumstance. Have you ever been on trial for a frivolous crime like Free Speech? The West Buro Baptist church are close to it. They want to say dead American soldiers are going straight to hell. Now that's a provocative idea.
-Sab
Don't dodge this. Where did you get the idea that someone claimed to be the Son of God?
Whatever---your bible claims he was the son of god---being such one would expect better behavior from him. Tec keeps saying that Christ did not support slavery, therefore her god did not, and she does not.
You say that Christ supported slavery, therefore you god does, and you do.
Whatever. The god you and Tec worship don't even resemble each other, so I'd probably have to address each of you differently. What I say to Tec will not be relevant to what you believe.
I'm not going to get into the particulars, because it is tiresome, and you will be off on a hard-to-follow tangent that ends with you saying you are superior to me, and therefore, not a conversation I even care to engage you in anymore than this post. Now go about your superior way, and bask in your superior self. I'm not interested.
Chappy: I think some slave owners probably did love their slaves. Since they lived in a culture that condoned slavery, they may have reasoned that they are giving slaves security in exchange for labor. They may not have seen any problem with this. Love is not reasonable. It does not automatically come with a set of morals. It can actually exist beside brutality. Love is not a code. It's an emotion. Actions are greatly influenced by our culture. A slave owner could easily reason that they are good to their slaves, keep them warm, feed them well, and therefore, they are showing love.
Exactly.
This is why the whole "Law of Love" thing is subjective.
ANYTHING can be justified by the "Law of Love".
For example:
A person may be mentally ill. We can sympathise with that, and do what we can to help them. THAT is loving.
Standing back and watching a mentally ill person destroy other people, and claim that we are showing LOVE to the mentally ill person.....how is that loving? It's a false "love". You are not helping the mentally ill person, nor are you showing love to the people they are hurting.
"Law of Love" is a joke......it's just one's own justification for one's own actions.
It's a false "love".
It's probably not even a false love. Like you said, love is subjective---and like I said, love does not come with a moral code.
There was a time when it was fine to beat your wife---nobody would question if the husband loved the wife, because it was culturally acceptable. It would not have even dawned on them to declare 'if you love your wife, you would not beat her'. Because, culturally, that was how it went. You could beat people you loved.
A slave owner can love their slaves, and rationalize their behavior any way they like.
Most abusive parents actually love their children---but they have no self-control, or a poor understanding of what works. We look at it, and we say they don't love them, but if you ask them, they do indeed have a loving feeling in their hearts----it's the other stuff that is screwed up.
Love is not a LAW. LOVE is an emotion. How people treat those they love is cultural. Jesus came from a slave holding culture. So maybe he was just telling people to love their slaves---I think most of them would have thought that at the time. Sometimes, love is simply not enough---we aren't living in a Beatles song.
we aren't living in a Beatles song.
Man-o-man, I would hate to debate against NewChapter. She makes such excellent points in excellent ways.
Of course, she is using valid points and viewpoints, so that helps.
Man-o-man, I would hate to debate against NewChapter. She makes such excellent points in excellent ways.
Of course, she is using valid points and viewpoints, so that helps.
She'll be banned next.
The "believers" are making sure of it.
TEC
Can you please back your statements with scripture.
How does one explain Jesus saying that the Laws of Moses are perfect and will last forever... The OT institutes several forms of slavery, one for Jews and one for everyone else. Xians know that the OT is racist and yet they fail to realise that the double standards in the religion also are present in slavery.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/matthew/5
Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill; 18 for truly I say to ? YOU ? that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place. 19 W
Jesus says these laws were not ended by him, and that they will last forever. He is here saying that Moses law is perfect including slavery.
How exactly does one explain that ?
Paul in Philemon tells the runnaway slave to return to his master. At no stage does Paul condemn the master, but rather strangely tells the slave to return as brother. Most masters had multiple slaves, the slave ran away because he wanted to be free and was most likely fearful of his master. Why doesnt P do the right thing by our standards and recognise that this evil man(the master) shluld not be a part of their religion until he does the right thing and free his slaves. ?
THe simple answer is of course P was a man of his time, and his morals reflect that. His nonsense about women being too stupid to learn in Timothy, is more proof that a mere man is writing this nonsense. ONly fools would not be able to spot this, and paint false lies and ignore whats right in front of them.
