I think if I were willing to help someone, I would not demand unquestioning obedience. I would be motivated by something very different.
Oh wait---I actually have helped many people, and never once did I desire total domination.
Why aren't you an Atheist?
by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends
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tec
Think if an higher form of intelligence came up to you and said, "I am willing to help you, but you have to do exactly what I say without question." Would you comply?
It might just be this metaphor... but I would not comply if any being said that to me. At least, not unless/until I first had reason to trust that being.
But God has never stated that we cannot question Him. We can. People questioned Christ all the time. Christ taught so that people could understand. Not because He expected blind obedience.
(You might not disagree with any this; but your metaphor could be taken as though God does not allow us to question Him, so I just wanted to clarify)
Peace,
tammy
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EntirelyPossible
Do not question my greatness, NC.
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OUTLAW
I believe that faith is important to God. Think if an higher form of intelligence came up to you and said,
"I am willing to help you, but you have to do exactly what I say without question." Would you comply?...Sab
The alien cannot afford you to act as a weak link becuse it would get you both killed....Sab
Hey Sab..
I don`t have any "Faith"..None..
No..I wouldn`t do what some Alien told me..
I`d give it a chance to leave in peace..
I`ll get the Alien Killed?..LOL!!
So we are dealing with an Inferior Supreme Being..
Who may die if I don`t do the right thing?..
LOL!!..
Thats way too far fetched for me..
If I`m working with an Intelligent Supreme Being..
That sucker better be bullet proof..And..
Not Bossy..
I want a 3 minute work week with 2 hr lunches..Plus..
51 weeks paid vacation every year..
If I can work something like that out..I`m IN!..
.....................
... OUTLAW -
NewChapter
Do not question my greatness, NC.
No, but I have evidence.
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King Solomon
You really think all-powerful, all-knowing beings are really going to be seeking love from vastly-inferior beings, rather than associating and having relationships with beings closer to their own? I'm thinking of an adult who prefers the company of children: something is defo wrong with that picture.
Oh, wait: I remembered pets. However, I suppose you don't kill a pet for NOT loving you, or if it doesn't perform tricks to the exact letter?
Yeah, not buying it: the entire premise is outlandishly silly... REALLY!
Edit:
Here's a thought: is god powerful enough to create a God for himself, that he would love, and who's plan he'd have to follow or face non-existence?
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sabastious
I don`t have any "Faith"..None..
No..I wouldn`t do what some Alien told me..
I`d give it a chance to leave in peace..
What if the alien promised you that it would save you and the people you love from the doom that exists on this planet? Surely you would consider it? The alien would allow questions, it wouldn't be a communist leader, it woud just be informing you that they are not going to come easy, as in it's not just going to be able to explain things easily because of the large gap of understanding. Because time is short the alien asks for faith because it will just make things run smoother until everything settles down and it can explain. Sometimes you have to trust someone who knows better than you and it doesn't even have to be an alien encounter.
I`ll get the Alien Killed?..LOL!!
So we are dealing with an Inferior Supreme Being..
Who may die if I don`t do the right thing?..
The way you could get the alien killed is if you insisted on acting as if you knew the same information as it. Like when it brings you to it's mothership and you insist on being the driver. If it catered to your needs then it could be destroyed so it asks you to sit quietly and enjoy the ride. That doesn't make it an inferior being at all. You are the inferior being because you have never even seen another lifeform besides the one's on earth. The very fact that it's here means it's superior. That fact should be apparent.
The point I am trying to make is that God wants us to trust him. He's not one that witholds information without purpose, he understands that we are ultra inquisitive, but sometimes that trait needs to be put on the back burner. The fact is that we as humans give each other faith all the time, why can't God ask the same? It just doesn't seem reasonable to say that he "must be this way" or he "must be that way" or else he's not worth it. God doesn't want that kind of egotism, he wants malleable personalities that are willing to trust intelligence that greatly exceeds their own.
But God has never stated that we cannot question Him. We can. People questioned Christ all the time. Christ taught so that people could understand. Not because He expected blind obedience.
Tec, another term for "blind obedience" is trust. God doesn't just want blind obedience, but there are times when you have to just trust Christ and information will eventually unfold. Without that trust there is no relationship. There are humans on this planet that we would do anything for, Christ asks the same of our relationship with him. How much more would we trust him than we do our closest confidants? Questioning isn't inherently bad, but in certain hectic circumstances questions are counterproductive. When those times come, we should just be following Christ without question because we know that any question we have he is already aware of and the answer WILL come in time no matter what. Faith in Christ is an extremely important trait to have if one intends to follow him, because there will be many a time where things just don't seem to make sense.
-Sab
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tenyearsafter
For me, there are more reasons to believe in a creator than to believe that a creator doesn't exist...primarily the "fine tuning" of the universe. If someone chooses to be an atheist, so be it...but I will believe in a creator until it can be proven to me a creator doesn't exist.
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NewChapter
There are humans on this planet that we would do anything for,
No, there are not, nor should there be. There are humans we may sacrifice our life, resources and opportunity for, but there are no humans we should do anything for. Everything must be filtered through our own conscience first. Some people we care very deeply for would ask us to do things that we simply shouldn't. A young man kills his lover's husband, because he would do anything for her. That's twisted, and promoting such an attitude is twisted and unhealthy. I saw a program about a mother and daughter that were in prison together. The mother would have done anything for her daughter, and that meant helping out with the drug trade when people came to the house. The mother didn't fully understand what it was all about, but she did anything for her daughter, including taking the calls when her daughter wasn't there.
Suicide bombers, abortion clinic bombers, and Westboro Baptists have this kind of faith and unquestioning obedience. It is dangerous. Rather than running around trying to teach people to have this complete trust, you should be teaching them to question every move. Teaching them not to be merely a follower, but a participant in constructing their conscience---personal responsibility. If they lack that, their own moral compass becomes eclipsed by another. It is this that enables people to kill, hurt, shun and hate. Because they are not looking inward to their own values, but looking outward to other values.
This god you keep talking about wants robots---blind trust and obedience. There is much talk of the gift of freewill, but in Sab's estimation, one must give up the gift of that freewill to be good with his god. It's not really a gift if it must be set aside in order to be in good standing and fully benefit from the rewards of the giver.
If I gave my daughter a computer, but then told her in order to have a good relationship with me, she must never use that computer, then I would be a terrible mother. Sab's god is a really terrible god.
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King Solomon
NC said:
A young man kills his lover's husband, because he would do anything for her.
Uh, that's because the young man had UNCONDITIONAL LOVE (AKA ) for her, and that love trumps EVERYTHING, including criminal prohibitions against murder (it's TWUE: it's called the "omnia vincit amor" defense, and I read it sumwhere on the Internetz).
This god you keep talking about wants robots---blind trust and obedience. There is much talk of the gift of freewill, but in Sab's estimation, one must give up the gift of that freewill to be good with his god.
And in classic Orwellian fashion of "News speak", JWs and Xians will tell you how God didn't want man to merely be programmed as robots, such that they HAVE to worship and love him; so God gave them "free will". NOPE!
Anyone who bothered to actually THINK about the term "free will" would be able to comprehend those two words mean exactly what they say:
1) FREE, suggesting free of any strings, conditions, or negative consequences attached to the decision.
2) WILL, suggesting one's desire or wishes; in a decision to be made, it's the choice they make.
Say I pick what flavor ice cream NC must eat: assuming she doesn't retailate if I pick her least-favorite flavor, I am FREE of the consequences of the choice I make. She's got to eat it, not me, so it's no skin off MY back if she likes the flavor or not. So a free will choice is one where there's no consequences to me, whatever way I decide.
OF course, the decision one makes to worship God carries the heaviest of consequences: death, or if you believe in it, eternal hell-fire. That is NOT a "free will" decision by ANY stretch of the imagination.
The WTBTS is aware of the distinction, now saying that YHWH offers humans "freedom of choice" or "freedom to choose to accept or reject" God's most generous offering, as that's a more accurate depiction of the sitation they portray: while you are free to reject God, you MUST face the music, pay the fiddler, deal with the consequences of the choice (in their view).
... OUTLAW