Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Recovery 207 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    King Solomon and sebastious seem to be the type that like to argue over 'words' and grammar and fallacies instead of the subject at hand.

    As per your request I have presented to you an argument in regards to the Faithful and Discreet Slave Biblical parable. I have described to you my belief and have shown you a real world example of how I believe the parable is playing out today as well as extensive evidence as to why the parable points to the Watchtower as the "evil slave" and not the "faithful slave." To say my argument is merely semantics is just a cop out and shows that you don't have anything meaningful to say on the matter.

    To sebastious: I really do not care to argue tit-for-tat about every little sentence I post about the scripture. This thread was not made for the purpose of arguing in circles about Matthew being God's word...maybe it's not...your painting a bad picture of apostates...etc. That is so tedious and pointless. Debate about the scripture/what I've presented or I won't be engaging in any further discussion with you as it's obvious you and your apostabuddies dont have a real case against JW's.

    To argue about the validity of Matthew in this thread would be off topic, but that doesn't mean that the validity of Matthew cannot, in any way, ever be pertinent to this discussion. I am curious as to why you think that this discussion ever veered out of the topic of scripture. Every time you have said that people are veering away from scripture they certainly were not, becuase the topic is specifically an actual scripture.

    Let me give you a rundown of the interpretation again verse by verse this time:

    45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

    The parable starts out with a question and within the question is where the "food at the proper time" is mentioned. Never is the faithful slave identified, only refered to. Neither is the process of which the food is created mentioned. Jesus is asking "who is providing the food at the proper time?" Within the question he sets up the scene by identifying a "master", his "household" and his "servants".

    46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

    Jesus is simply saying that good things will come to the faithful and wise servant when the master returns. This is the first time the concept of leaving and returning is mentioned.

    47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

    Jesus is saying that upon returning the master will put the faithful servant in charge of all his possessions. We see a reward being given to the slave for being faithful to the master while he was away. Masters depend on their slaves when they are away, so they have to develop a level of trust.

    48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’

    Now we are introduced to another mode of the faithful servant: wicked. The wicked servant is given a property of impatience. The master has to trust his slaves, like I said, but in order to figure that out they have to be tested somehow. This is what the depature is accomplishing. It's effectively separating the faithful from the wicked slaves. "While the cat's away the mice will play."

    49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.

    We are being given a cause and effect of the wicked servant's inner conflict with the master's departure. The master is greater than all the slaves so the slaves will have to make due while the master is away. This is not an easy task and eventually some slaves are said to "crack" and start to beat their fellow slaves.

    50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.

    Notice that the master does not come at an hour that the faithful slave is unaware of, but only the evil slave. Because the faithful slave will be "keeping on the watch", whereas the evil slave we be asleep, which is a related parable stated in the same chapter. The faithful slave doesn't know the hour the master will return, but they are faithful and feed the slaves patiently and enduringly while maintaining the proper prudence in the scenario they are thrust into. The evil slave will be caught completely unaware because they are in their own fantasy delusion brought on by their wicked impatience.

    51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    The evil slave is said to be gnashing their teeth when exposed and punished by the master upon returning. For they have been abusing the master's slaves for a very long time all the while fully beliving that THEY were the faithful slaves. Why do you think the wicked slaves feel justified in beating their fellow slaves? Because they have PREMATURELY identified themselves as the faithful slave and it's creating a POWER STRUGGLE of which has be won BY FORCE (because no one can know for sure). This is exactly what the Watchtower has done with the Bible and what it has to offer mankind. They have positioned themselves in the "seat of Moses" and if anyone questions them they beat them into submission or beat them out of their organization.

    Here is a very good video describing exactly how the Watchtower fraudulently assumed the position of Faith and Wise Steward by changing the Bible itself:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm-JlSDGbCw

    -Sab

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    Data-Dog - Sparlocks new friend is Apostabuddy- sold separately!!!

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    A wise-cracking side-kick??!! Awesome!!!! I want a coffee mug!! And let's do an on-line comic book adventure!!

  • Recovery
  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    In your summary, you assert that I cannot produce a better Scriptural viewpoint. For me, it's much more simple. I've examined your claim, and it's not believable. I'm not persuaded by the evidence. I don't feel any need to take it any further. You evidently do find the evidence to be persuasive, as I once did. I feel that I can relate to your current worldview, as it was once my own.

    Very nice website design, by the way.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Nope sorry, I don't go to strange links. Could be porn there.

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze
    Nope sorry, I don't go to strange links. Could be porn there.

    If only

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Recovery says:

    King Solomon: No it would be ridiculous for the GB to keep a list of all who partake, since the Memorial is open to the public and anyone can partake and claim to be of the anointed. Merely partaking of the bread and wine does not make one anointed. Such a list would be inaccurate and a waste of time/energy.

    BUT Recovery also says:

    Imagine if they tried to write down the name of every one who ate the bread at the memorial. It takes more than doing that to prove you are of the anointed. "By their fruits you will recognize those men". It's plainly obvious who the anointed are, so they do not need to keep tabs on every individual who claims to be of the anointed (as the reasons stated in the article show this to be quite reasonable).

    See that? In one paragraph, he claims the task of compiling a list would be "inaccurate" due to difficulty of determining who is "truly" anointed, but in the next paragraph he claims determining who the anointed are is "plainly obvious". Well done, serpent with the forked tongue!!! Contradict yourself much?

    Sooo, Recovery is simply spewing, not remaining consistent with his own nonsense, as if WE possess the short-term memory of gnats.

    If nothing else, Recovery has fulfilled the parable prophecy of the "chess-playing stool pigeon" (it''s found in a lost Apocryphal text):

    He made up his own rules that allowed him to move his and the opponents chess pieces at will, crapped all over the board, and then flew back to his blog to strut in front of the pigeons (who oddly, aren't even there?) after declaring victory.

    The guy has gonads, apparently thinking he's taking on Satan's apostates and doing the FDS a great favor here!

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    You asked for a scripture to prove the JW interpretation is wrong. The very scripture that states the parable is the one that disproves the JW interpretation. Let's ignore the parable/prophecy thing for now.

    First, the slave would have to be faithful and discreet BEFORE Jesus arrived. "Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so." This is the number one criteria. What "food" was being taught when Jesus allegedly arrived in 1918/1919. That he arrived in 1874. The cross was not an issue. Christmas was still being celebrated. There was no concept of an earthly hope. Were these teachings food even worth serving at ANY time if they were not correct? Would Jesus really approve of these? If so, then we could say that he would have approved of the Second Adventists, perhaps the Free Masons, or anyone else teaching SOME truth at that time. It doesn't matter what has been taught since then, because Jesus would have already made his choice. It wasn't recognized that Jesus came in 1918/1919 until years after the fact.

    Second, we have only the say-so of the publishers of The Watchtower to tell us that Jesus came. And we have only the say-so of The Watchtower to tell us they are the FDS. Is that evidence? It certainly is a bold claim, but it is a self-proclamation. Does that make it true?

    Third, let's say that the FDS was chosen. Are they still? Well, who, according to the scripture, gives the food? The faithful and discreet slave, right? This appears to have changed in recent years.

    w09 6/15 pp. 20-24, specifically par 18: " Similarly, today a limited number of anointed men have the responsibility of representing the slave class. They make up the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. These spirit-anointed men oversee the Kingdom work and the spiritual feeding program. As in the first century, though, the Governing Body does not consult with each individual member of the slave class before making decisions."

    This is in contrast to the Insight book article about the Faithful and Discreet Slave: "Whereas this was a prime responsibility of those appointed as ‘shepherds’ of the flock (1Pe 5:1-3), the apostle Peter shows that such stewardship of the divine truths was actually committed to all the ‘chosen ones,’ all the spirit-anointed ones, of the Christian congregation. (1Pe 1:1, 2; 4:10, 11) Thus the entire anointed Christian congregation was to serve in a united stewardship, dispensing such truths."

    It seems the Governing Body has taken on the role of the entire slave class all on its own. So, the scripture used to identify the FDS, Matt 24:43-45, also tells us the main responsibility of that slave, providing spiritual food. The Governing Body has taken that responsibility away from the rest of the FDS, therefore, the anointed cannot fulfill this responsibility today.

    You asked if the FDS is not the anointed, as JWs believe, then who is? I'm not sure that questioned can be answered at this time. We would have to accept that Jesus arrived invisibly already so he could identify the FDS. There is scriptural reason to believe he has not. Certainly, not every eye has seen him. (Rev 1:7)

  • moshe
    moshe

    The WT talks out of both sides of it's mouth- thank you L-Q for reminding us that the GB uses non-anointed to run the WT operations, admits they don't consult with "each" ( "any", is what they really mean) member of the slave, which is at odds with earlier WT book's teachings on the F&DS.

    Fact is, no JW can provide the name of any living member of the F&DS from any WT publication- We assume ( taking them at their word) the GB has consulted with at least one member of the slave, before-- call Bethel and see if they will give you a name. JWs need to realize that the Watchtower's F&DS dogma is just JW folklore - Do you know why the F&DS is like a UFO? All the JWs have heard of them, but nobody has ever seen one!

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