Brazil. JWs up 26% in 10 Years

by Joker10 126 Replies latest jw friends

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  slimboyfat

  I said the same in the previous post and many other places besides. Plus my exchange with Joker pointing out how JWs are retreating from trumpeting their numbers. What a ridiculous comment, but depressingly typical of your mischaracterisations.

  On the other hand I've never heard you admit that JWs have better growth and spread than other comparable groups.

  What I don't forget about mentally leaving the JWs is that I had an aversion for replacing one set of biases for another. Putting an overly negative spin on their statistics is not a service to anyone. Like I say, people are not dumb and can see right through that sort of thing.

  What is a shame for lurkers is that your brand of spinning facts beyond stretching point to prove the JWs are wrong is the dominant perspective on the forum. I think it can be counterproductive to press the facts further than they will reasonably bear in this fashion. I believe that the unvarnished facts are more than enough to convince any JW who is ready to leave.
• 

  cedars

  slimboyfat

  You accuse me of negative spin, I say you put out a positive spin as far as the plight of the organization is concerned. I'm not interested in stretching anything - I'm only interested in telling it like it is. The difference is that I write with lurkers in mind with a view to helping them out of their perilous situation, whereas you don't seem to be remotely arsed about their predicament. You would much rather take them on an ambiguous journey where, in parts of the world where JWs are absent or 1 in a million, they are simply "poorly represented". If you want to put words in my mouth and brand me hysterical for trying to help people see reality, that's your prerogative. To use your words, "people are not dumb and can see right through that sort of thing."

  Cedars
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  free @ last

  Well said SBF ^^

  No need to spin it, the jw flaws speak for themselves.
• 

  dozy

  JW numbers are certainly increasing in some third world countries , more than offsetting the decline / flat lining in most of the first world ( except the USA , which is something of a special case ). There are a variety of reasons for this - this Economist article ( on Mexico ) touches on some of them.

  I suspect that any religion which has a strong evangelical basis ( ie the members are strongly encouraged & motivated to preach & try to recruit more members ) will generally prosper , in numerical terms at least , in third world countries , especially those which have (1) a "Christian" tradition with respect for the bible & (2) a complacent dominant often corrupt state religion ( usually Catholic ).

  http://www.economist.com/node/21551091
• 

  slimboyfat

  I am interested in the facts. You are interested in pursuing your agenda first. I say it's important to pursue the facts first, and the narrative, if sound, will take care of itself.

  I am still waiting to hear you admit JW growth and spread are better than comparable groups.
• 

  cedars

  free @ last

  No need to spin it, the jw flaws speak for themselves.

  Yes, and these flaws were so remarkably obvious from what SBF said on page 1 that prompted me to take the bait and comment on this thread...

  They are growing better than many other religious groups, especially in the west where most Christian denominations are actually in decline. Even standing still in much of Europe is a considerable achievement when compared with the declines of other groups.

  Note the glowing praise in the above quote. And I'm the one accused of putting out spin?!

  Cedars
• 

  slimboyfat

  It is not "glowing praise" to point out the facts of the situation. Religious attendance is in rapid decline in Britain for example. From that perspective the 1% or even 0% growth of JWs in Britian in any given year is somewhat of an "achievement".
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  free @ last

  They are growing better than many other religious groups, especially in the west where most Christian denominations are actually in decline. Even standing still in much of Europe is a considerable achievementwhen compared with the declines of other groups.

  The above seems pretty factual to me. What did you see wrong with the statement?
• 

  cedars

  slimboyfat

  I am interested in the facts. You are interested in pursuing your agenda first.

  I too am interested in ungarnished facts, and my "agenda" is to help people out of a damaging cult. I make no apologies.

  I would also add that this agenda isn't served by praising JWs to the hilt without offering a balanced perspective within the context of JW belief.

  I am still waiting to hear you admit JW growth and spread are better than comparable groups.

  Define "comparable groups". Would you include Roman Catholicism?

  Cedars
• 

  cedars

  free @ last

  The above seems pretty factual to me. What did you see wrong with the statement?

  It was more what wasn't said. I think that should be fairly obvious if you've followed the discussion between myself and SBF.

  Cedars