Brazil. JWs up 26% in 10 Years

by Joker10 126 Replies latest jw friends

  • cedars
    cedars

    I've been perusing this page on Wikipedia...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

    The figures used are claimed to be taken from the CIA factbook. Whether you trust the CIA book or the Yearbook more is, of course, a personal choice.

    The table given shows catholicism to be present in 197 lands. In contrast, the Society claims to be present in 236 lands.

    Following a brief audit, it appears the lands that are in the Worldwide Report but are missing from the Catholic list are as follows:

    So basically, there are catholics everywhere - the church just isn't as pedantic at listing all the countries and islands as the Worldwide Report appears to be.

    Not only are Catholics to be found in all of the lands in which there are Jehovah's Witnesses (usually in far greater numbers), they are also in the countries in which Jehovah's Witnesses are either banned or non-existant.

    Somalia and Afghanistan both reportedly have 100 practitioners. Admittedly, that's an extremely modest number, but nonetheless for each of those countries it's 100 more than Jehovah's Witnesses claim to have. North Korea, meanwhile, supposedly has a more impressive 4,000 practitioners, which compares favorably with ZERO Jehovah's Witnesses in that land.

    Then you start to look at some of the banned countries, most notably China. The list on Wikipedia cites 9.8 million Chinese Catholics, but the specific page for Chinese Catholicism suggests that figure could run as high as 12 million. Iraq has 310,291 catholics, whilst Iran has 13,603. Bear in mind that the last Worldwide Report quoted a peak of 26,272 publishers COMBINED for the "30 Other Lands".

    Obviously I don't have growth figures for all these countries, but if nothing else, I have demonstrated that there is a Christian denomination that is better and more evenly spread across the globe than Jehovah's Witnesses - and that denomination is Roman Catholicism.

    Cedars

  • steve2
    steve2

    Cedars I think you are correct. I once said to an Evangelical Christian that I thought the most "representative" Christian religion on earth was/is Roman Catholicism (in terms of its longevity, impact and presence in more countries than practically any other Christian religion around the globe). The reaction I got was not dissimilar to a JW; something like, "They're not even a true Christian religion".

    By contrast, the JWs, although undoubtedly bigger than the older Millerite submovement, 7th-Day Adventists, is far too scattered and few in numbers in many countries to make such a statement about global "spread".

  • hijosdelawatch
    hijosdelawatch

    Cedars, another point:

    Look at your list of lands of your last post. Many of them are "dependencies", "autonomous regions" and so. So, they're not really countries as CIA book or Catholic Church are speaking about.

    For example, here in Spain in the 80s, Canary Islands appeared separated from Spain. So, WT could claim that they were present in 2 lands, but really is only 1 country as Canary Islands was (and is) just another region of Spain.

    In fact, they're doing the same at present with Madeiras that is a region of Portugal.

    It seems chovinist. They only use that to impress publishers and increase the number of "lands".

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    What you have shown is that there are many more Catholics in total and that they are in more countries than JWs. I have disputed neither of those facts. It is obvious that a Church with over a billion adherents is going to be in many more countries in larger numbers than JWs. My point is that JWs are more evenly spread across the globe than the Catholic church. They represent a more consistent proportion of the population of countries as diverse as Norway, Russia, Italy, Japan, Kazakstan, Nigeria and so on.

    It is also worth noting that the data from the CIA factbook seems to define adherence to Catholicism in the broadest terms possible. It gives a figure of over 8 million for the number of Catholics in the United Kingdom for example, when we know that only around 10% of that figure attend Catholic services.

  • cedars
    cedars

    slimboyfat

    My point is that JWs are more evenly spread across the globe than the Catholic church. They represent a more consistent proportion of the population of countries as diverse as Norway, Russia, Italy, Japan, Kazakstan, Nigeria and so on.

    The CIA factbook and the list I've presented above would seem to contradict that viewpoint, even allowing for the criteria of what constitutes an adherent. In particular, you seem to think that NO JWs in Somalia, North Korea and Afghanistan, despite there being Catholics in all of those countries, still makes JWs "more evenly spread" than Roman Catholics. Somalis, Afghans and North Koreans would no doubt beg to differ. Of course, if you're determined to ignore the facts for whatever reason, then that's your business.

    Cedars

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    No it doesn't, and I have explained why. If you won't understand the point there is nothing I can do.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    jwfacts I am not sure Mormonism really is a harder sell than JWs. Mormons teach a totally bogus history of pre-Columbian America of course, which is somewhat worse than simply falsifying the date of the destruction of ancient Jerusalem. But on the other hand they do not put their followers in danger by requiring them to refuse blood or put them in conflict with civil authorities by insisting they refuse military service. They do not stigmatise followers who go to university or periodically discourage marriage and raising children. They do not teach that Christmas and birthdays pagan. They do not teach that the UN is a scarlet coloured beast or that their religious meetings in the 1920s fulfilled the prophecies of Revelation.

  • cedars
    cedars

    slimboyfat

    JWs are more evenly spread across the globe than the Catholic church.

    You assert the above, despite the fact that there are more Roman Catholics than JWs, in more countries around the world than JWs, especially in the 33 countries where JWs are either under ban or non-existant. And I'm the one who won't understand the point?

    You zero in on Norway, Russia, Italy, Japan, Kazakstan and Nigeria which you keep banging on about. I look at the world as a whole. If every self-proclaimed catholic and every self-proclaimed JW suddenly lit up as a pinprick of light on a map of the world, you would see a much brighter and finer spread of catholics than JWs. Crucially, you would see a massive black hole stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Korean peninsula where there are virtually no JWs at all. That same black hole would contain millions of Catholics. However, you seem to want to ignore this inconvenient fact for whatever reason. You can lead a horse to water...

    Cedars

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    This map of Catholic distribution is instructive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Distribution_of_Catholics.png

    It demonstrates, as I said much earlier in the thread, that the Catholic church is concentrated in Europe and Latin America. If a similar map were made for JWs it would show they are more evenly distributed across the globe as they are better represented, as a proportion of their membrship, in places like northern Europe, Eastern Europe, Africa and Japan.

  • cedars
    cedars

    Now you're calling it "distribution"? Ok, fair enough. Firstly, the map looks fairly similar to the concentrations of JWs - namely centered in America and Europe with a strong contingent in sub-Saharan Africa and a smattering elsewhere. Only with Catholics, these "smatterings" encompass the Arab/Communist world, where JWs are virtually absent. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the map appears to show percentage of population - not the actual numbers of catholics, and we are talking about how evenly spread across the globe both denominations are. You insist that 0% JWs in at least three countries still makes JWs more evenly spread? I disagree.

    Cedars

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