Relationship Issues: Boundaries, Freedom of Choice and Codependency

by 00DAD 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sizemik
    A person who love's unconditionally has to include themself in the equation. They have to love themself enough to not allow another person's destructive actions to infect, control or destroy them.

    To "love your neighbour as yourself" is in itself a condition, strictly speaking. But your statement sums it up in easily understood terms. Unconditional love must be totally balanced to exist . . . and so is probably a rare thing in pure form.

    Where unconditional love exists, the relationship will take the path causing the least damage to either party, with none at all being the ideal.

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    Sizemik- Thank you!

  • panhandlegirl

    Quendi said:

    Relating all of this to JWs and the WTS, I can only fall back on what a now departed friend once told me. “Organizations cannot love people. Only people can love other people. The problem many Witnesses have is that they expect a faceless organization to act like a real human being and that is something it is quite incapable of.”

    The organization promotes this false thinking with the way it portrays itself. “Faithful and discreet slave”, “spiritual mother”, “Jehovah’s wife” and other images give believers the idea that they can have a personal relationship with the hierarchy and by extension with God himself. That’s because these terms give the image of a real person who is divinely sanctioned. So Witnesses believe their own individual circumstances will be understood and accommodated in the same way another person would. That can’t happen because even appointed overseers have a rulebook they must adhere to which allows little room for individuality. None of the images the organization wants to project are the truth.

    The situation is aggravated when grossly unqualified men are appointed to positions of leadership. Given no training in even the rudiments of psychology and counseling, they can’t perform the needed tasks. Overseers buy into the lie that the holy spirit is behind them and so “worldly” knowledge isn’t necessary to be a good shepherd, and that holy spirit will “fill in the blanks” and overcome any deficiencies. The result is the arrogance, stupidity, abuse and mistreatment that characterize so many dealings between overseers and individual Witnesses.

    Quendi, these are very good points. I can see that my family thinks this way and perhaps, that was my view also. This view greatly distorts the relationship between the

    members of the organization and the GB. The "MOTHER" organiztion is supposed to nurture you and love you in the same way as Jesus loves his sheep. The reality is

    not only do they not know or love you, they don't give a damn about you. You, the members, are a number, an unknown slave that is required to follow the rules without

    asking questions or complaining or the "Mother" org throws you out with the bathwater. And talk about "unqualified men!" These men are ususally not educated in anything but

    jw dogma and they have the gall to judge and tell others how to conduct themselves, what is right and what is wrong. It reminds me of the song by Jonathan Edwards "

    Sunshine", 'He can't even run his own life, I"ll be damned if he'll run mine." Although, the borg proclaims love in all their dealings, there is only control, loss of freedom to run

    your own life and they don't acknowledge any boundries, all bets are off as far as that is concerened.

  • apostatethunder

    I believe true love is unconditional, and it goes both ways.

    I think Jesus words of loving your enemies are referring to people that act in ignorance, as he said about the Romans, “forgive them because they don’t know what they are doing“, but did not said so about the Pharisees.

    Loving those who hate you is the equivalent of hating yourself.

  • flipper

    BTTT, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • 00DAD

    I thought it was interesting that in last Sunday's WT the subject of boundaries was brought up twice:

    LET JEHOVAHLEAD YOU TOTRUE FREEDOM, July 15, 2012, pps. 7-11

    2 Indeed, the more that people disregard the moral and spiritual boundaries established by God, the more society as a whole suffers.

    6 The boundaries that Jehovah has set for his intelligent creatures are for their benefit and protection. - [Emphasis added]

    So, clearly, the writers of the WT understand the subject. They just have developed a culture via a rule-oriented "theology" rife with policies and regulations that end up trashing the appropriate boundaries of families and friendships and even of an individual's sense of self. They then super-imposing their own self-serving new WT boundaries which are carefully designed to further their own agenda at the expense and total disregard for the rights of others.

    Let's review: It's a cult!

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    00Dad- it still blows my MIND that I was in a CULT!!!!


    And isn't kinda funny how the WTS speaks about boundaries, while they insidiously over-step their boundaries in the lives of it's members!

    I wonder how they are going to keep JW's under control in the next several years to come.

    There are fewer meetings. Everyone has access to the internet. So, maybe they will have to come up with more fear tactics to keep the members in line

    I hadn't recognized how fearful I became.

    And now, when I listen to Jw's speak, I hear them say word for word the same thing. Everyone repeats the same mantra over and over again:

    "We have to stay close to the organization."

    "We are in the last hours of the last days of this system"

    "We have to preach the word.

    Study the publications. Prepare for the meetings. Meditate." And, so on.

    And while we were in fear of our lives and our loved ones salvation, they were busy making plans for a new complex that will take years to finish.

  • tec

    marking for after work...

  • 00DAD

    tec, I look forward to your comments on this subject!

  • tec

    I have a few thoughts, though I did comment on the unconditional love thread as well.

    I think it is very difficult to love unconditionally, if you are AFRAID to love some. Afraid that it is wrong to love them, that if you love them and 'Jehovah' does not approve of them or is going to destroy them, then perhaps he will be mad at you for loving them. "How can you love someone who is His enemy?" And the WTS has painted a great many people as the enemies of God. So I think that right there is a huge impediment for being able to have unconditional love for anyone when you are a witness. Sort of like a fear that loving a 'bad' person must mean you are also a 'bad' person.

    It is one of the reasons why judging and condemning others is so... burdensome. Why loving all... without worrying about whether they are bad/good or deserve/don't deserve love... is freeing; lightning.

    But love between two equals, like a husband and wife is a mutual love that goes both directions. It can't go in only one direction. -At least, not for very long...

    The love can go in one direction for as long as a person is capable of loving, perhaps always even... but the relationship itself might not last. That does not mean, imo, that the love from the one person stops.

    You made a distinction between the kind of love that is involved with loving one's enemies, and love between spouses. I agree that there is a distinction. Universal love is not the same as the 'in love with someone' love. But that does not mean that you cannot have universal love... underneath... the 'in love' love. The 'universal love' might well form a stronger bond in a relationship; with more respect/affection/giving. Preferably if it is mutual, lol... but it perhaps not. Some who can give more... just DO give more; accepting that the one they love cannot give that much.

    I think Jesus words of loving your enemies are referring to people that act in ignorance, as he said about the Romans, “forgive them because they don’t know what they are doing“, but did not said so about the Pharisees.
    Loving those who hate you is the equivalent of hating yourself.

    But he also said:

    Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

    Christ did not put a condition upon that. I personally think most people do do wrong to others out of ignorance, out of not knowing what they are actually doing; or are acting out of hurt of their own. Those who do know what they are doing and are malicious in hurting others for the simple warped joy of it... well, we can feel free to leave those to Christ and to God. And ask for mercy for them, because who knows what brought them to that state; and because it is what we (or at least I) would want someone else to do for me, if I ever came to such a state.

    I think it is easier to love someone who hates you if you can move past personal hurt, (if you can accept and forgive them especially)... and instead simply feel sadness for them. Sadness for the burden of anger and hate that they carry around. For the lack of love and light within them. Because no one who is filled with peace and with love... also hurts and hates and curses others. Perhaps in a time of hurt or anger, but not continuously; and probably not without some regret.

    Peace and love leave little room for anger and hate. Hate and anger leave little room for peace and love.

    And if you do have love within you, it is often your desire that others have that love as well; so you hope for them rather than hating them.



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