Scientific Careers and Race

by Quendi 85 Replies latest social current

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  Quendi

  One more suggestion. I had my class write a short theme paper on mathematicians, telling them that while they could choose anyone they wanted, I would be particularly pleased if they chose to highlight either a woman or person of color. As an example, I circulated a paper I had written about the Indian number theorist Srinivasa Ramanujan.

  The result was a number of good papers, the most surprising of which was a brilliant one on the person who single-handedly invented the field of statistical analysis back in the nineteenth century. That person was Florence Nightingale!!

  Quendi
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  RubaDub

  I think the problem with Afro-Americans compared to Asians is the role models that children grow up with.

  With Afro-Americans, they have role models like Vanilla Ice, Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent, etc.

  Asians have Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Lucy Liu, etc.

  That explains it.

  Rub a Dub
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  moshe

  This will not be a popular comment- Just the obsevations of two men who worked at different big drug manufacturers sites - me for three years, a contractor- he as an employee. We heard the same hushed complaints from employees from two different locations and 10 years apart-ie, minority employees did not carry their weight on the team- if you complained about having to do the hard work, while they got the easy technical assignments, that was noted in your yearly review and cost you an automatic $100 a month increase in salary. My friend quit the big drug company in less than a year- he knew he couldn't accept the "culture", that rewarded poor performance, by moving them to departments where others carried their load. There are many technical jobs where you must do the job perfectly , every time- a 90% near miss is a failure. Perhaps NASA is one of those places where they only keep the people who can hit the bullseye.

  My job as an electrician at Chrysler required positive results, not guesses- troubleshooting a breakdown for 8 hours didn't cut it- you had to actually fix the problem- and fast. I'll let you guess what race fixed the breakdowns and which ones "assisted" after the foreman called in someone from another dept to get the line going again. They won't let a weak troubleshooter spend 2 hours poking around in confusion, when someone else (they know who to call) shows up and finds the problem in 15 minutes or less after they arrive. We all got the same pay- thank goodness for unions.
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  dgp

  Cubans are different from other Latin Americans in a few important ways. One of them is that their indigenous population was wiped out. They still have some people of mixed blood, but they are basically either white or black, or mixed black and white. Their indigenous populations do not exist in nobody's living memory. Listen to their music, see their traditions, and you won't find the indigenous ancestry that is so evident in, say, Bolivia, Peru, Guatemala or Mexico. They are different even from Puerto Rico.

  This means that they had a different make up to start with.

  Second, Cubans who live in the United States are often people who fled Castro. Those people were usually the better schooled in a country whose educational average was, at the time, also higher than elsewhere in Latin America (or Spain, or Italy, by the way). Besides, Cubans knew and still know that they just cannot return to Cuba. They have to make it in the United States or die. Besides - and this is not a small difference - they knew they were there to stay. How many Cubans would be deported to Cuba, compared to Mexicans or Salvadorians?

  In contrast to Cubans - at least to the first wave of them - Latin Americans from other countries who move to the United States tend to be those who cannot make it at home. Cubans who fled Cuba were those who knew they COULD make it abroad.

  We Latin Americans are a very disparate lot. The Dominican Republic shares a lot with Argentina, or Peru, but they are also very different countries. The Dominican fiesta is very different from Andean melancholy. That is true. I am not of Cuban descent and am speaking of Latin Americans of other descent.

  I have several relatives in the United States, from two different countries, and they are very different. Two are Police officers in Los Angeles. They were born in the United States and their family has probably been there longer than anybody else. One of the brothers is an agent for movie stars (not the famous ones). A grand-uncle in Miami is a neurosurgeon. He makes very good money and his children, who were born there, are also professionals. This family is well-off. Another relative is a dealer in Las Vegas while his sister works in the court as a translator. You can see that even within families, personal situations are very different, because everyone responds differently to the great cultural shock that comes with moving to the United States.

  Some friends of mine went there and were quick to have anchor children, because they wanted to be sure they could stay. Now that doesn't count, but, at the time, it mattered. Starting off in a new country with a new kid is a very different thing from starting off alone, yes, but knowing you can stay.

  But I still believe that, while starting out with a disadvantage matters, it does not explain our failure as a group. I think it has to do with simple parental interest in your getting an education. And also with personal interest.
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  moshe

  That chemistry set brought back memories from the 60's - the stuff kids get today is a joke. I had an expensive Erector set, too. I still have a top quality microscope and it gets used several times a year, and a nice telescope for astronmoy and I still play around with electronics and build rockets- back in my day you built real kits- shortwave radios, walkie talkies, some even built color TV's- Heathkits. Kids today don't have the same manual experience at building stuff and following step by step directions like past generations.

  My old SW tube radio kit--

  
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  dgp

  Moshe, I would not object to saying that some of us Latin Americans do not like to carry the fair share of the work burden. Maybe this is not well known in America, but there is a number of us who go back to their places of origin because they don't like idea of working that hard to make money. Even among manual laborers, there is a "natural selection" that works against those who won't work hard. I imagine that not all those who stay are hard workers.
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  dgp

  By the way, something a Puerto Rican acquaintance told me comes to my mind.

  I have never been to Puerto Rico and I don't know what life there is like, so I will simply repeat what he told.

  He said that Puerto Ricans who had real skill moved to the United States because they were citizens. It was a matter of learning good English and presto, you could make. But some others had every reason to stay where they were. Borinquen is densely inhabited and therefore a small shop can provide for your needs. And then, they enjoy - he said - a number of advantages created by the American government so that the idea of becoming an independent state remains nonsense to most Puerto Ricans. Puerto Rico is a boring place, he said.

  I say this as a possible example of people of similar descent and make up - Puerto Ricans and Cubans - who have different luck in the United States as groups.
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  mrsjones5

  " With Afro-Americans, they have role models like Vanilla Ice, Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent, etc."

  Who? They weren't around when I was growing up. Those examples are far from explaining it.

  My story:

  I got a referral to work at Levi's. I didnt actively persue working there though I know of many who's dream was to work at Levi's. Someone I knew during my career recommended me when they were asked if they knew any graders. Levi's called me in for an interview and grading test. I passed the interview and was given the test which consisted of a graded spec sheet, a tag shorts pattern, and a piece of dot paper. My tools to get this done was a pencil, a calculator, and a see-thru ruler. I passed with flying colors and was given the job. A few months later I was doing some extra work for a coworker that needed some help and was surprised when she said to me "you actually can grade". I was known in my department of being very knowledgable about my job, making few mistakes, being very prompt with my lead times, and rarely needing help. I was one of only three person in the whole pattern development department who were black and I'm proud to say that everyone one of us were stellar. One of us went on to become president of a company related to patternmaking and mass customization. He currently has another company that is focussing on designing jean wear..
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  moshe

  I visted the Philippines for two weeks in 1998 and talked to an American who lived there (married to a filippina lady) and started a small machine shop- he told me the stories of how hard it was to find someone to do the simplest of technical tasks- and if it took longer than an hour of concentration to learn a task they just gave up-- too hard.
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  botchtowersociety

  Cubans are different from other Latin Americans in a few important ways. One of them is that their indigenous population was wiped out.

  No. Quite a bit of Taino, Siboney, and Guanajatabey ancestry remains in some parts of the island, especially in "Oriente"--the east part of the island. Furthermore, indigenous were shipped in from places like Florida and Colombia. There is a reason why country people in Cuba are called "guajiro." This is a Colombian tribe's name.

  

  Second, Cubans who live in the United States are often people who fled Castro. Those people were usually the better schooled in a country whose educational average was, at the time, also higher than elsewhere in Latin America (or Spain, or Italy, by the way).

  That is only true of the first wave of immigrants. This is not necessarily true of later waves. Among my four ancestors who came is a mechanic, a secretary, a construction worker, and a housewife.

  In contrast to Cubans - at least to the first wave of them - Latin Americans from other countries who move to the United States tend to be those who cannot make it at home. Cubans who fled Cuba were those who knew they COULD make it abroad.

  People do not throw themselves into the sea in rickety rafts--where by some estimates 75% never make it--for light and transient reasons. The same is true for crossing the desert as people from other nations do.