The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch 375 Replies latest jw friends

  • tim hooper
    tim hooper

    Maybe they need something major to strengthen the JW's who are wavering.

    The door of the ark is closed, but you can still easily fall off the boat. D2D work is finished as armageddon is just around the corner. All ark passengers must pay for their passage in regular increments in addition to working their passage, thereby helping to keep the boat afloat. Contact with the outside world is only possible with the Captain's permission. The internet is verboten because it's the internet that stirred up all their problems in the first place. They know they will get even more shit for this, but so what, things couldn't get much worse anyway.

  • sir82
    sir82

    I'm having a hard time buying into the idea of the Society "softening" its stance on DFing.

    As has been noted, the fear of DFing is the primary motivator for many JWs to stay on the straight & narrow, or at least try to cover their tracks.

    A significant proportion, maybe even a majority, of those who face judicial committees are kids & young adults, let's say 25 & under. These kids are connected via technology.

    What happens after this elders' school, when teens are busted for fornication / drunkenness / drugs, and suddenly instead of maybe 75% of them being DF'ed, the proportion drops to 30%, 20%, 10%?

    Instantly, around the world, the message will be spread that "we can get away with a lot more than we used to."

    The Society is quite aware of how quickly "word" spreads.

    I just don't see them doing anything to ease up their intimidation & control tactics.

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    I am wondering if because of the results of JW Df'ing is more of an 'abhorrence' to non-JWs in such countries as Brazil and Mexico (or even in third-world countries). In Brazil there is a lot of publicity about it. Such cultures are for families quite tight-knit, families are for survival in many ways. Is the WT in Brazil getting some governmental flak about DF policy? Or, is the work slowing down as the public are bringing this critical issue up in door-to-door?

    How can an organization tell an aging mother, who relies on her children for survival in this world, to 'shun' her own! Many such countries don't have much of a program if any, to take care of their aging population.

    Maybe Scientology has no problem taking thousands of $$$ from the rich and wealthy, but the WTS has no problem taking the last two coins from the old widow and the already poor!

  • blindnomore
    blindnomore

    All I can say is I surely not missing dropping $100-200 in the Kingdom Hall contribution box monthly. Besides, driving my car for service 5 days a week. Besides, contributing $100s at the conventions. Besides, contributing $100s every another year for Kingdom Hall Remodeling scheme. Besides, being conned $100s to Jehovah's Witness dishonest thieves.

    For what was I DF'ed? NO smoking, nor drinking(moderate drinker), nor drug, nor adultery, nor stealing, nor gambling, done nothing! All I did was letting elders know they were harsh interegators instead of helper to young flock who are in their care. I was one of the best suppoters and a true believer for Watchtower. In this area, we have more inactive and DF/DA that they can make up one, if not two, good congregation. During last 20 years, this area has decreased for the Watchtower(even with all the steady moving in from out of states that we are in need). In fact, it turned into Dark Age Terror Reigning. I know numerous still in are very frustrated with harsh elders and even harsher local polices than officer ones. I wouldn't go back to that religion even if all 7 GB would beg personally. Except for undercover purpose.

    It's all their problems not ours, isn't it? Softening their stance or take whatever action to survive are desperately needed without delay. The Watchtower should have recognized their issues if they had any brain or humble bone in them. But for me, to their credit, I am out of cult. One lucky ex-cult! Cheers!

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    I just passed on the email as it came to me... apparently the author used Google or some other software to translate it into English, but it is lacking. Thanks Mind Blown for making some of it more comprehensible. I am not attempting to explain it to you, merely passing it on. My emails are like a stock ticker, and are sometimes 3-4 days late or longer before I can get around to posting the more interesting things. I just have too many hats to wear running Freeminds, which is almost all done myself (we do have volunteer board members, such as Lance Goller (treasurer) and Paul Morrison, who has been my greatest allies in improving our communications, but they have their own jobs, leaving most all the ordinary banal work to do myself. I am and will always be the only salaried board member. I find that I can get more done that way, and if I need some part-time work done, like folding newsletters and mailing, writing a particular author, or doing investigative video reports, I can hire outsiders and 1099 them. I am simply not a fan of most organizational politics, so I try to keep it as least complicated as possible. I can hire someone to do a particular job.

    Over the years many have tried to become some kind of "branch" of Free Minds, Inc. but I find it more work than it's worth, as I have to train them to do all the peculiar work myself. Plus few understand my 30-year unfolding plan to deprogram all of you (just kidding!) Plus I can play the "dumb okie" part and use my style, rather than present some facade or conglomerate entity that is not ne and that must water its message down to suit all the board members (though they are in place to keep a close eye on my antics, and two of my board members are not Christian, two are). Another advantage is that I can write what I want when I want, without having to play the alter ego of "organization," or seek to placate potential supporters that I am some super-orthodox Christian. I smply love Jesus and I do very much feel I have a relationship with him. After 8 years in the WT and about 13 years afterwards as a pastor without pay, I am convinced we need less invisible organizational entities and more individuals who can speak their mind, yet have wise advisors to keep me in check.

    I choose Christians only because they are the ones of my generation who established the basis for community action against the Watchtower's abuses, yet remaining somewhat free of large organizational issues. Free Minds' income is about 85% contributions and 15% sales (thanks to the digital age books and videos are not purchased much anymore). But actually I would, if I had more funds, do away with sales altogether, as I don't want to die shipping books at 80 years old. I love to blog, but I haven't had much time lately. I will be doing more at the end of the summer. I would love to spend more time on this board, but I am limited to about 10 minutes a day just to pick up and drop off news... so I often miss certain things for 3-4 days until they are drawn to my attention.

    My background is a hippie/Jesus Freak, having grown up in the Cold War era of the 60s. My girlfriend Renee, myself, and two longtime buddies rented a house on the Strand in Newport Beach in 1970, long hair, drugs and all, but having grown up as a Baptist I had Christian leanings. Though I take Christian history, the development of the canon of the New Testament, and "doctrine" with a grain of salt and do not and never have believed in hellfire, the accuracy of Genesis, and have ALWAYS believed in evolution, I had a real physical and supernatural experience with Jesus that lasted 10 days in the first year of my ministry upon leaving the JWs. Though some of my writings may seem to indicate I am not in tune with the Bible (after all it was voted together by organizations of men, and nowhere did Jesus start a congregation, church, or organization... nor did he attempt to explain his nature with the Father in Greek philosophical terms... he was my hero, and I gave my life to serving Him at a Billy Graham crusade when I was 9 years old... and it was a real conversion. Years later, I just happened to get lost in the sea of men's organizations. Going back to the simple model of Jesus is actually coming back in style, by the way, as people see the manmade and less-than-pure motives of some "Christian" organizations. Thus my hesitancy to call myself Christian in some circles because it would imply I accept all the councils of men who try to fit the disparate books that have been compiled into a "Bible" (something Jesus never suggested - the sacred Jewish writings were the Jewish scriptures), it didn't take long for man to take over in a multitude of "apologist" roles, from the very beginning of the church. I bought into that partiallly for a time. But like even most seminarians who study the Bible from a more scientific, historical and linguistic viewpoint, there are not a few discrepancies. That is to be expected, as all civilizations continually rewrite their vown history and change their doctrines to "fit in" to modern times.

    I think we will see more of this return to Christ in a simple way among those who leave the Watchtower, especially among those who have no evangelical or Catholic/Greek Orthodox background.

    While I have written much on doctrine in the early years, and all of it is on Freeminds.org, I tended to write more "third-person" so as not to persuade others that these doctrines are all true and are completely MY viewpoint. But I still do believe they represent as close as possible the beliefs of the pre-Nicene church. The usefulness of this is in showing groups like Jehovah's Witnesses that they are lying about church history, and even if some things the early church taught are difficult to believe in a modern world. But it proves they are lying.

    The main mark of a follower of Christ according the Acts 1-5 was a repentance, conversion to the tenets of Christ, and the devotion to a newer, more selfless life. It happened in a flash of time. No 6-month Bible studies, no joining an organization, and no collective egos to weaken or even counter the message of Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit

    Juan has been working in revamping my entire collection of websites and asks for no money in return. Most all of outside help comes from non-paid contributors. I am so grateful for such selfless, loving people without whom I could never have survived. Plus I have 30 years of close Christian friends (see watchtowerworld.org) that are mostly retired, but very much still want to be a part of helping people, and so (as is always seen on the front of the Free Minds page) there is a link to the site where you can contact the founding "apostates" who have come to believe in Christianity after leaving the WT. They love to help people and there are phone numbers and emails to reach them... people I admire like Joan Cetnar, Ed Gruss, Grace, Tom Cabeen, the Jansmas, and so many more. They WANT to talk and help others in need. Plus the site is a reminder of who has gone before you and done the REAL work that was much harder back then. I avoid recommending hard-core fundys as I prefer people leaving the WT to go back to where they got off the road to sanity and learn to trust their own judgments rather than that of others - something often rare in our societies.

    The downside is, I get backed up. But I do have a faithful core group of supporters who contribute to our work and keep us going. Most of them I have met personally, and some have been supporters for nearly 30 years!

    I think people like these brothers in Brazil are coming to realize similar things about religious organizations, and the internet has been a major source of change.

    Right now I'm stuck on a phone call to Australia so I will continue this on another post or on my website, for what it's worth. I've rambled enough. :-))

    Randy

  • WinstonSmith
    WinstonSmith

    Thank you Randy for your ongoing efforts and input here and on your other sites. You're a legend mate, even if you are a hippie Jesus freak ;-)

    Mrs Smith received an email today from a friend in another country who is also fading that had recently been to a one day assembly in April. After hearing about some of the info on this thread, he recalled some comments he recorded in his notes. The speaker read 1 Thessalonians 5:14 and said "Up until now disorderly ones were considered to be those rebelling against God's laws. We have to remember that this can also include laziness and those who are inactive. These ones deserve our patient encouragment. They need our loving care. Sometimes these inactive ones say hurtful things to the elders. Elders must remember to return evil with evel to no-one."

    We have asked him for more details such as who said it and what their rank is. It probably has nothing to do with the Feb 2013 school but aligns with some things that have been mentioned. He may have jumped the gun or maybe it was part if a foundation laying exercise.

    All speculation and conspiracy theories of course, but fun nonetheless!

  • CuriousButterfly
    CuriousButterfly

    Thank you Randy for the info and all the members here who provided their thoughts on the possible changes.

    I tried to read all 17 pages and my eyes are going batty. One thing I know for sure is my husband attended a week long elder training school this past spring and will attend an additional 1 day elder's school this fall. He even stated that something significant must be on the horizon since they are calling everyone back for another day. I am curious and wonder what trick the GB will pull out of their butts.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    maybe they're just going to say "we're too old to do this anymore, let's just quit"

  • jws
    jws

    Doctrinal change could still be on the table (as stated) vs. something procedural. Maybe they're trying something different. Every time they do some big doctrinal change, they just drop it in a Watchtower or at a convention talk. That just stuns everyone all at once and there's nobody local to calm them down.

    So maybe this time, they get local people in on it first. They hold the elder meetings all close together, then drop a watchtower release just afterwards. Now when people start going to their elders with doubts, the elders already have had time with it. They weren't blindsided with it at the same time as everybody else. And if it gets out after the elder meeting, so what? The Watchtower will be due soon enough. And now they have local people on-site to help with questions anyway.

    I don't know what the change could be. It could be another 1914/generational change. Because of the close proximity to the last change, that might require special handling to help people to get through it. There's so many old doctrines that define JWs. No blood, the preaching work, 144,000, any of those could be a shock to the rank and file.

    As for it being about money, sure, maybe. But doctrinal changes go hand in hand with money, don't they? Doctrine can affect money flow in terms of protection from lawsuits or in just having a doctrine that won't drive people away or that more people being recruited can accept. And in the wake of doctrinal change, you also have to protect your assets (people) so they don't walk out the door.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    With a 2/3 majority of 7, they would need 5 out of the 7 to vote for a change. Therefore, one swing vote might be very crucial, and that one person could be courted and flipflop back and forth. Perhaps in times past when there was intel of a major change coming, like the elimination of COs, the majority had voted for it, but they couldn't maintain a supermajority.

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