How do I hear/feel God?

by doinmypart 473 Replies latest jw friends

  • cofty
    cofty

    So you ignore everything I said I preach a mini-sermon instead.

    You have attempted to defend the xenophobia of the Israelites which led to genocide and specifically infanticide by telling us that your god wanted the nation to be "clean". Listen to yourself Michelle. In modern times where else have we heard talk about racial purity and ethnic cleansing?

    You defend animal sacrifice even though it is deeply offensive to anybody not steeped in ancient religions.

    Consider what it entailed...

    Then the king and all Israel with him offered sacrifices before the LORD. Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the LORD: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the temple of the LORD . 1 Kings 8:62

    That was in just one day. 22 000 cattle and 120 000 sheep. Can you even picture all that blood? The priests must have been paddling up to their knees in it.

    Over the course of a typical year the total sacrifices added up as follows


    Time Bulls Rams Lambs Goats
    Daily sacrifice 708
    Sabbath sacrifice 96
    New Moon 24 12 84 12
    Passover Week 14 7 49 7
    Feast of Pentecost 2 1 7 1
    Feast of Trumpets 1 1 7 1
    Day of Atonement 2 1 7 3
    Tabernacles 71 15 105 8
    ANNUAL TOTAL: 114 37 1063 32 = 1246 animals per year

    Then we come to Jesus's death which his bewildered followers interpreted in the light of their sacrificial heritage.

    There are many ways of explaining the "work of christ" in the NT but consider this from Paul.

    But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. - Romans 3:21-26

    The phrase in bold actually says that "god set forth (pro-te'-tha-me) Christ to be a propitiation (he-lä-sta'-re-on) through faith in his blood."

    According to Paul it is faith in his bloody sacrifice as a fulfillment of the Atonement day ritual that leads to forgiveness. It was on that day that the High Priest confessed the sins of the nation over the head of a goat and then cut its throat and offered its blood in the Most Holy. A second goad, the goat for Azazel or scapegoat, was chased off into the wilderness.

    The violent shedding of Jesus' blood was an essential requirement for the forgiveness of sin.

    Now lets take a closer look at the two Greek words I have highlighted above.

    According to Strong's lexicon pro-te'-tha-me means "to set forth to be looked at, to expose to view; to expose to public view; of the bodies of the dead"

    It was common practice in the ancient world to leave the bodies of executed criminals exposed to public view as a warning to others. Paul uses precisely this imagery in describing what god did to Jesus. It was not the Romans or the Jews who made a public spectacle of Jesus' broken and bloody body it was god himself.

    Further, according to Paul, the purpose of this gruesome scene is to act as a propitiation - he-lä-sta'-re-on. Again according to Strong this word was used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins expiated); hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory.

    In summary the picture that Paul presents is that of the wrath of an angry god appeased by the sight of Jesus bloody body hung on the cross.

    At its core the christian gospel is no different from all the other ancient pagan rituals of human blood sacrifice.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Myelaine

    the false ideas of foreign "forces" were kept from (wholesale) infiltration into the worship of God

    Why does your stupid god need to be worshipped? Does he have such a small penis that he feels insecure? I really don't want give anyone or anything respect if that entity demands worship and kills those that don't comply. Your god is a shithead!!!

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear NewChapter...

    you said: "I know that perverse kind of love makes some people feel they are happy---because they don't expect to be on the judgement end, and because they were not part of nations that were doomed to genocide-"

    Jesus is coming to judge the quick(ened by the Spirit) and the dead(those dead in their tresspasses and sins)...judgement begins at the house of God.

    I don't "feel happy" knowing un-repentant people will be judged by a Holy God...jeremiah spent most of his ministry in tears too.

    love michelle

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Welcome back myelaine...

    ...but NOW we have the full revelation in the bible

    We sure do....we now know that a fair portion of it is fraudulent.

  • cantleave
    cantleave
    I don't "feel happy" knowing un-repentant people will be judged by a Holy God..

    Holy God = Psychotic Egomaniac

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Tell me this Myleine--do you think that anyone you have loved could be burning in hell right now? Do you think you could be happy for an eternity if you knew someone you loved was burning in hell? Do you not see how twisted it is to say that a loving creator would do something like this? Genocide? Really? Are you REALLY defending it and calling it an act of love.

    I hope for you to break through this murky veil and see the truth of the matter. It troubles me that you believe and support such disturbing things. When I believed it, I was very unhappy. You see, I had lost some family members and friends when they died, and the thougt of them being tortured with fire, even the POSSIBLITY, was more than I could bear. I just couldn't be at peace with the idea that it wouldn't be ME (even though I wondered if it could be me.) I knew that if this horrible, brutal god got his blood thirsty hands on my precious god for an eternity, or even for 1 minute, I could not find this eternal happiness. But I suppose I was a bad christian. I just couldn't joyfully believe such rubbish.

    I hope you break free of it one day. I'll help if you like. But telling people you don't know that their god loves them so much he is willing to torture them for an eternity, is really doing nothing to recommend the christian way to anyone. Not that I would ever pick up the christian way again---it's not a reality---but there are others reading. And those others need to know THE BIBLE HAS BEEN DEBUNKED, AND YOU WILL NOT SUFFER FOR AN ETERNITY. And if you want to know more about THAT, I will share a great deal of information with you---and I won't threaten you with hellfire if you don't accept it. I actually do know what love means, and it's not that

    . NC

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    Cofty - wow. Glad I'm not a believer. I wish I could say "I stopped believing by going back to the original greek and gaining a deep understanding about what really is happening in the bible" rather than "I stopped believing because god is really boring and trying to understand 2000 year old metaphors gives me a headache. But mostly it is boring".

    Cantleave. I shouldn't laugh but there is something about the term 'shithead' that makes me chortle. Just think of it for a moment, and the life a poor shithead must lead. In a crowded room if anyone thinks 'what is that smell?' everyone is going to look at him. And the mess when he sneezes... Worthy of three exclaimation marks as well.

    If the Daily Mail editor is reading this the headline tomorrow will be "Experts say god has a small penis and excrement for a head. And he causes cancer" and will reference your post about 13 paras in. But then I guess it is only a small step from being a Daily Mail reader to contributor.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    James, you have a pm.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    You do all know the figures given for the temple dedication sacrifices mentioned RE Solomon is a load of exagerated bollocks right? OK thought so, but just double checking. Also the nice round numbers of concubines and wives? Oh and pretty much everything else about David and Solomons greatness and wealth? And that most of the building work claimed for Solomon was actually done by those cursed Omride dynasty (who WERE rich and powerful) 100 - 200 years later? Etc etc etc. The Bible is bollocks once you get down to it I am very sorry to have to tell you.

  • cofty
    cofty

    King Solomon - thanks for the information from Orions

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