by Seeker 101 Replies latest jw friends
Prisca, no problem.
Consider it dropped by me. We are just unable to see each other's point of view I guess. Nothing to be gained by spending any more time on it.
Live long and prosper.
think41self
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!
Seeker
I got to agree with the Boys in Writing on this one-(SMILE at least sometime they get it right) of course we all know how many times this applies to themselves and other jw but at least the point is correct in my view as to why folks try to dog folks here on the net:
*** g90 5/22 12 Five Common Fallacies-Don't Be Fooled by Them! ***
FALLACY NUMBER 1
Attacking the Person This type of fallacy attempts
to disprove or discredit a perfectly valid
argument or statement by making an irrelevant
attack on the person presenting it.
A similar tactic is to attack the person with a subtle dose of innuendo
But while personal attacks, subtle and not so
subtle, may intimidate and persuade, never do they disprove what has been said. So be alert to this fallacy!
ROFL! This thread is going to go down in my mind as true irony...
LOL Seeker,
It is ironic...funny how these things can happen, eh?
P.S. Gravedancer...do I know you? You sound awfully familiar.
think41self
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!
HI JT: You are 100% on target ... "Ad Hominem" is one of the most common forms of attack/defense ... and yet is one of the weakest, and least worthy to use.
Essentially, ad hominem is the result of feeling hurt by what someone has said ... and feeling the need to diminsh what they said by exposing what appears to be their 'hyprocrisy' in a matter.
Ad Hominem can feel so right, and be so wrong. If one person says to another, 'Smoking is bad for you, so you shouldn't smoke,' then the person hearing this, who is about to light up a cigarette may feel offended ... and then respond, 'You don't have room to talk, look at how you drink so much booze.' It is hard to accept criticism of a fault ... and it is easy to highlight the faults of others in return.
On the other hand ... little side trip here ... there is also good old fashion war. When that happens, there are no rules, and all bets are off ... it is winner take all. Slice and dice, slash and burn, and stop at nothing short of total victory ... then, and only then does use of 'ad hominem' make some sense ... as one of many tools in the arsenal of causing hurt and pain to the enemy.
Well I thought I would add a few more comments to this topic as it nearly turned into another flame war. I honestly think that many people using this discussion board could benefit from looking at the rules of "Netiquette" which is network etiquette, the do's and don'ts of online communication. Netiquette covers both common courtesy online and the informal "rules of the road" of cyberspace.
I copied some material from a site dedicated to this topic and you can find the entire series of articles at this URL: http://www.albion.com/netiquette/index.html
Here are the ten basic rules:
Rule 1: Remember the Human
Rule 2: Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life
Rule 3: Know where you are in cyberspace
Rule 4: Respect other people's time and bandwidth
Rule 5: Make yourself look good online
Rule 6: Share expert knowledge
Rule 7: Help keep flame wars under control
Rule 8: Respect other people's privacy
Rule 9: Don't abuse your power
Rule 10: Be forgiving of other people's mistakes
I'm just going to expand on rule 1 and 7 below by quoting from the online book:
Rule 1:
Rule 1: Remember the humanNow Rule 7:The golden rule your parents and your kindergarten teacher taught you was pretty simple: Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Imagine how you'd feel if you were in the other person's shoes. Stand up for yourself, but try not to hurt people's feelings.
In cyberspace, we state this in an even more basic manner: Remember the human.
When you communicate electronically, all you see is a computer screen. You don't have the opportunity to use facial expressions, gestures, and tone of voice to communicate your meaning; words -- lonely written words -- are all you've got. And that goes for your correspondent as well.
When you're holding a conversation online -- whether it's an email exchange or a response to a discussion group posting -- it's easy to misinterpret your correspondent's meaning. And it's frighteningly easy to forget that your correspondent is a person with feelings more or less like your own.
It's ironic, really. Computer networks bring people together who'd otherwise never meet. But the impersonality of the medium changes that meeting to something less -- well, less personal. Humans exchanging email often behave the way some people behind the wheel of a car do: They curse at other drivers, make obscene gestures, and generally behave like savages. Most of them would never act that way at work or at home. But the interposition of the machine seems to make it acceptable.
The message of Netiquette is that it's not acceptable. Yes, use your network connections to express yourself freely, explore strange new worlds, and boldly go where you've never gone before. But remember the Prime Directive of Netiquette: Those are real people out there.
Would you say it to the person's face?
Writer and Macintosh evangelist Guy Kawasaki tells a story about getting email from some fellow he's never met. Online, this fellow tells Guy that he's a bad writer with nothing interesting to say.
Unbelievably rude? Yes, but unfortunately, it happens all the time in cyberspace.
Maybe it's the awesome power of being able to send mail directly to a well- known writer like Guy. Maybe it's the fact that you can't see his face crumple in misery as he reads your cruel words. Whatever the reason, it's incredibly common.
Guy proposes a useful test for anything you're about to post or mail: Ask yourself, "Would I say this to the person's face?" If the answer is no, rewrite and reread. Repeat the process till you feel sure that you'd feel as comfortable saying these words to the live person as you do sending them through cyberspace.
Of course, it's possible that you'd feel great about saying something extremely rude to the person's face. In that case, Netiquette can't help you. Go get a copy of Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior.
Another reason not to be offensive online
When you communicate through cyberspace -- via email or on discussion groups -- your words are written. And chances are they're stored somewhere where you have no control over them. In other words, there's a good chance they can come back to haunt you.
Never forget the story of famous email user Oliver North. Ollie, you'll remember, was a great devotee of the White House email system, PROFS. He diligently deleted all incriminating notes he sent or received. What he didn't realize was that, somewhere else in the White House, computer room staff were equally diligently backing up the mainframe where his messages were stored. When he went on trial, all those handy backup tapes were readily available as evidence against him.
You don't have to be engaged in criminal activity to want to be careful. Any message you send could be saved or forwarded by its recipient. You have no control over where it goes.
Rule 7: Help keep flame wars under controlKind Regards,"Flaming" is what people do when they express a strongly held opinion without holding back any emotion. It's the kind of message that makes people respond, "Oh come on, tell us how you really feel." Tact is not its objective.
Does Netiquette forbid flaming? Not at all. Flaming is a long-standing network tradition (and Netiquette never messes with tradition). Flames can be lots of fun, both to write and to read. And the recipients of flames sometimes deserve the heat.
But Netiquette does forbid the perpetuation of flame wars -- series of angry letters, most of them from two or three people directed toward each other, that can dominate the tone and destroy the camaraderie of a discussion group. It's unfair to the other members of the group. And while flame wars can initially be amusing, they get boring very quickly to people who aren't involved in them. They're an unfair monopolization of bandwidth.
Skipper
I think losing one's temper (on this board or in RL) is human. But when it's done on a continual basis it shows the weakness of that person in a bright light. Rarely have I lost my temper on this board. You have the benefit of reading and rereading your words before you post them. It's called "filtering". I have a much harder time doing that in RL.
What is the point of being rude?
Does it accomplish what you've set out to do?
Does it get your point across in a manner that is listened to?
Is there a better way to handle the situation?
How will I feel about myself after I've made an "attack"?
If I feel myself about to go off the handle I ask myself these questions. Of course there is a better way to handle the situation. But more often than not, it's my anger and my pride and my selfishness that wants to lash out. I have a choice. Be selfish and perpetuate a bad situation or be an adult and state facts and emotions without resorting to foul language or personal attacks???
Personally, I'm tired of the flame wars. Prisca v. Tina is an old B-rated movie that needs to be retired. Like all the other flame wars that have scarred people's feelings on this board. Perpetuating it by making more comments is completely transparent.
Andi
Mindchild,
I hate people who make up or quote self-help lists, and I especially hate people who use or quote made-up internet-savvy words like "Netiquette"! Fuck you, you animal asshole, you bastard piece of shit!
(Oh yeah, and I hate those assholes who resort to emoticons, those sons of bitches!)
Dedalus
Dedalus if you weren't so cute, I would have to be offended!
Skipper
"Politeness on this DB went out the window when a bunch of H20ers (not including you Seeker) joined up here a year ago."
Admit it girl, you LOVE US.
lolol
Do you uh, yahoo by the way?
sKally
If man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-sKallyWagger
