What happened to politeness?

by Seeker 101 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Seeker

  So, why even say what you did?

  When I get in trouble around here, it is contributed by my habit of speaking in abbreviations. Instead of spelling things out in detail, I jump to the point and move on.

  Why did I say what I did? I explained it, I was taking an opportunity to set the record straight when You Know had muddied the waters many times. I said in my previous response to you in this thread that I should have first acknowledged what Tallyman was saying, and then made my point. But I was abbreviating. I only mentioned "You Know" once? Sure, and that was once more than anyone else.

  Now, I also disagreed that Bethel would get knocked over, so in that I disagreed with Tally. But later in that thread I acknowledged that Bethel could get knocked over if terrorists chose to set such a bomb off in a different location than their past attempts. Tally could well be right.

  What about radiation damage, which would of course affect Bethel no matter what? Again, I was abbreviating. I said a blast would be 'terrible' and 'awful' and when I said that I was including the affects of radiation damage in those words. I just didn't spell it out.

  My motives were sincere, I was making what I felt was an important point that no one else was making, and that would be educational and reassuring to lurkers who might worry about such things. NYC would not disappear. If I wasn't as clear as I could have been had I not abbreviated my intentions, I acknowledge that now.

  None of which deserves to have me called an asshole. A polite person would have done what you did, find out what I meant, and thus would have seen that we are all on the same side but just emphasizing different aspects of the facts.
• 

  gravedancer

  It is ironic that an id like "schizo" is suspended and deactivated (just because others don't really know who it was) but this type of fucked up shit is allowed to go on for months.

  While I tended to get frustrated with "schizo" because I never knew who it was never did I see "schizo" cuss at others. While this is not intended as a defense of "schizo" it is interesting that this shit is tolerated. You can cuss and tell each other to "eat shit and die" or "shut the fuck up" as long as you are well known.

  I know I am tramping on risky ground because lots of people here will find this post unpopular but if there is anything NON-FACTUAL about this post I will apologize profusely.
• 

  teejay

  Don't get me wrong, my Man.

  Lately, I haven't been on the board as much as before and I've missed a lot but I've followed this fairly well. You don't need to explain yourself to me. I understand all of what you said and don't have a problem with any of it. If anything, you guys have only piqued an interest in going to the Big City and seeing it for myself.

  All I was trying to do was help you see the possible... I say "possible" answer to why Tally called you what he did. Like I said already, I personally think it's out of bounds to call people names on a discussion board because of the views they hold and Tally was wrong for going there. Then again, I've fallen into that mortal sin my own damn self so I'm not about to throw stones.

  You and Tally both are both cool with we.
• 

  Seeker

  It's cool.

  My point is that there is a time and a place to call someone a name. That wasn't it, even if my motive were as bad as he thought it was. The polite thing to do is ask me about it, find out my side. But Tallyman has it in for me, and I have no idea why. He has ragged on me for a while now, for some reason. I clearly have pissed him off in the past. Not sure how.

  But it's important to remember something: This thread was primarily NOT about Tallyman. I specifically exempted him because it had just happened and he might not have had time to respond to what I said. No, this thread was specifically about another case involving someone who called me a name based on what someone else said to me, not what I said, and did this several days ago and never apologized for his irrational attack.
• 

  teejay

  Lots that I could say... lots that I said already that I would have rather said elsewhere...

  But Tallyman has it in for me...

  After being on this db for a while I finally figured out—stupid me!!—that there's a history among people and individuals and groups that is not always apparent to stupid, clueless people like moi. When Talley called you what he did... so off the wall as it was, believe it or not my very first thought was: "there's some history there... some background bs that teejay don't know nuthin' about." Nuff said, eh?

  We cool, Seeker. I'm done.
• 

  Tallyman

  Hi Seeker
  Some people just have little or no Klass, if you know what I mean.

  
  Yeah, "ThinkForOneSelf"... I think I do.

  Like it is a REEL Klass Akt for someone to come into a forum
  where there are a lot of hurting, vulnerable people, who have
  just left a cult, or trying to get out of the Watchtowercult...
  and beside a poster's name, put a link to a BUSINESS WEBSITE
  advertising "empowerment".

  And SELLING books:
  
  

  The Game Rules for Life
  by Doug Kelley

  -Are you struggling to find meaning in your life?
  -Are you tired of the problems life brings?
  -Are you shackled by a burden of guilt and shame?
  -Do you desire to find more joy in living?
  -Have you lost your motivation and momentum?
  -Do you desire more success in every aspect of your life?

  And these Klass Act people are offering "consultations" and "advice"
  for a "modest" and "affordable" fee, $$$ for to tell people how they
  can BE A SUCCESS IN LIFE!!

  No thanks. I think I'll ThinkForMyself and figger out how to get
  MOTIVATED and EMPOWERED and BUILD SELF-ESTEEM, rather than
  let some dude do my thinking for me, and tell me the "Game Rules"!

  RulesRulesRules!
  Haven't those of us who've left the Watchtower Organization
  had our GutFull of Freekin' RULZ?

  And to have the gall to advertise and $ELL these "Rules" to
  fragile people who need help.

  I think a "Klass Akt" would be a person who had a FREE website
  beside their name posting FREE INFORMATION exposing the Stinking
  Wicked Watchtowercult... and let the folks make up their own minds
  and do their own thinking and planning to push on to succeed.

  Whad a NO-Klass Act to ADVERTISE one of those Zig-Ziglar Kults
  to people who just left a Kult.

  Hey folks! C'mon Get Motivated to SUCK SEED!!!!

  It's that way in real life, so of course it's that way here.
  It's ok though, classy people stand on their own.

  
  Yeah, they sure do!

  think41self

  
  HuH! what a Misnomer!

  TT
• 

  Tallyman

  Scheeker, why are you such a whiney weenie?

  In case you missed it in the other thread, I'll repost here:

  =====================================================================

  My message was directed at the You Know types who think we are in for a
  >major disaster.

  
  Scheeker!
  Why, since 9/11, THAT would include a lot of people who think
  we're are "in for a(nother) major disaster...
  but I sure wouldn't call the government officials among that group:
  "You Know types".

  I didn't think you were in that category, Tallyman, which is
  why I neither directed my message to you nor named you.

  
  Whoa! couldn't fooled me.
  WHO was it that you were responding to, if not me?

  Glad to hear you don't put me in the YK category.

  I only named You Know, and directed at people who think like him. You quoted the Dragonfile report

  
  I quoted part of the Time magazine article to be found at:
  * http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020311/index.html

  that talked about "flattening", and I pointed out what that report
  pointed out, that only a 1/2-mile diameter would be flattened.

  
  No. You made assumptions and gross exaggerations of the facts in the report.
  But to be fair, there were speculations in the report...
  and that is what my response was intended to be - "SPECULATION"...
  so WHY did you have to go " all technical" on me?

  Type in "Blast Effects of a 10 Kiloton Nuclear Device" in a good search engine
  and just look at the disparity of information you get...

  You Know,when he has talked about this report in the past, implies far worse damage. That's why I took this opportunity to once again show how wrong You Know is.

  
  I don't know what YK has been saying.
  I have posted on this forum in six months, and only surfed by here
  occasionally to cull intell, but even before then, I had neither
  the desire of the time to read the Rantings of YK.

  Your report is not wrong, nor anything you said.

  
  Of course, it was not my report, and you did challenge what I was saying
  as wrong, but it was speculation, so how could that be wrong??

  I said the financial district because that is where they attacked twice
  before and nowhere else. It is a logical assumption that they might try it
  again.

  
  You don't have your Thinking Cap on, Scheeker!

  The terrorists, if they had a 10K Nuke, would NOT have to go downtown
  with it. With that kind of power, they could detonate at a distance.
  It would be vastly difference from past attacks,
  where they had to physically drive a fertilizer bomb in a truck
  to the parking deck of the WTC, and then on 9/11, deliver
  a fuel bomb (2 jetliners) directly to the buildings downtown.

  They could detonate in the harbor and flatten a LOT.

  Some of the media Talking Heads are already saying that,
  they could set the Nuke off in the middle of the East River near
  lower Manhattan, and take out the financial district, the Brooklyn Bridge,
  maybe the symbolic target of the Statue of Liberty...
  because of the Tidal Wave the blast in the water would create.
  And that would almost certainly take out Brooklyn Bethel.

  And then some are saying, that if the terrorists hijacked a barge
  or a tanker loaded with propane and detonated that in harbor,
  they could take out a whole city.

  So, what if these jokers souped up their Nuke and set it off
  in a tanker loaded with propane, in the middle of the East River.
  Now THAT would Flatten some buildings...

  >If you look at your map again, you'll see that Brooklyn Bethel is more than
  1/4 mile away from Manhattan. A 1/2-mile diameter means it extends 1/4-mile
  in all directions.

  
  Which has me wondering why you said in your first post:
  "It's easy to see the "1/2 mile radius" figure ..."

  We are dealing with so many variables here, and nothing is set in stone
  and super precise, and why is .30 mile in the scale I illustrated,
  from harbor on Manhattan to Columbia St. on the Brooklyn side
  so different from .25 mile?

  Bethel is too far away from Manhattan to be flattened.

  
  No it is not.

  Striving to be accurate when there are inaccurate You Know types on this
  site is good behavior, even if you think it isn't.

  
  You made Wild Assumptions - "Flatten all of Manhattan"... the article didn't say that or did it say: "Wipe out Brooklyn?"...and neither did I. And the article did NOT make mention of "the financial district in downtown Manhattan"... so, you need to strive harder to be "accurate".

  All of which must make me an asshole...

  
  No, to be accurate, I used an adjective preceding asshole - 'Technical'.
  You made an ass out of yourself trying to break everything thing down
  and be so precise, when this article is based on speculation,
  and there is so much widely different opinion held about what the blast effects
  would be from a 10K Nuke.

  So, if it makes you feel any better, I was not calling you a
  General ASshole, an All-Inclusive, All-Encompassing, TOTAL Asshole.
  I didn't put you in THAT category.

  You were a select Asshole.

  And since everyone says you don't attack the person, but only the viewpoint,
  and what is a viewpoint but an opinion and as the saying goes:
  "Opinions Are Like Assholes. Everyone Has One"...
  and if you subtract the one, divided by two and carry the last number,
  then you too, are attacking "Assholes"...

  hee.

  TT
• 

  Tallyman

  Seeker said:

  But I should have realized that Tallyman's hatred of Brooklyn Bethel wouldn't like it if I didn't agree with him about Bethel being blown to smithereens.

  
  Seeker, what a perfectly ROTTEN thing to say about me.

  And YOU start a thread about what happened to "politeness" ?

  Your above comment is much worse than you being called an asshole.

  What?!?

  Do I HATE the Buildings at Brooklyn Bethel?

  That would be stupid. What have the buildings done?

  Do you say I HATE the people INSIDE the buildings?

  I do not!

  They are VICTIMS for the most part - got to exclude some Cultleaders -
  and I've said on the Net since I've been online for nigh on 10 years,
  that I feel SORRY for these people, these people who've been snookered. I was one of them, for God's Sake!

  I used to LIVE at Brooklyn Bethel.
  I actually liked some of the people living there.
  I don't want to see them nuked.
  I don't want for them what they seem to want for us - EXTERMINATION.

  WHERE THE HELL Do You Get Off Saying That About Me.

  I spoke of Kharma catching up with those who wish destruction upon others, and what goes around comes around... but I would rather see these Bethelites, the ELITE of the Watchtowercultists- TURN AROUND,
  and dump the cult and change their mind and get real.

  THAT is why I've been doing what I've been doing online for all these years. To help those inside Shock Themselves To Their Senses, and to warn others away from the Watchtower.

  I don't want to see Watchtower HQ get nuked.
  I don't hate buildings or people.

  I love the Bethelites.
  Yes, they are my enemies, but trying to follow hard teachings
  of Jesus Christ, I know I must love my enemies.
  I love my enemies.
  I don't wish their Obliteration.

  Damn your time for saying that about me!
  Man, you got a Mean Streak!
  I guess now, I'm gonna have to love you too.

  TT
• 

  Julie

  Hi Larc,

  You seem to take issue with my assertion that an undergrad has shown you up in your Self Esteem thread. Here is a quote from you in that thread:

  :No study has validated Freudian Psycoanalysis. It is a technique that has been proven to be invalid. It is ineffective and inefficient

  Ok, this was your contention in that thread. Then you wrote a post about psychoanalysis. Here is some of it:

  :On a previous thread, the question of the effectiveness of Psychanalysis came up. Since then, I have done some research.
  A recent article* summarized the results of three literature surveys, and the author came up with the following conclusions:

  (I find it interesting that what Seeker and Tina knew practially off the top of their heads, you, a PhD in the field had to "research")

  1. For major affective disorders, and major psychoses, psychpharmacological treatment works best.

  2. For symptomatic anxiety based disorders, such as phopias, generalized anxiety disorders, panic disorder, obsessive complulsive disorder, and post - traumatic stress disorder, cognitive and behavioral treatments work best.

  3. For personality disorders and complex comorbid disorders with an underlying personality disorder, long term relationship therapies work best. Among these theraputic types would be pscyhoanalysis.

  So, in the history of theraputic intervention, psychoanalysis has gone from a cure all, to one method of several that can be called upon to help in category three above.
  -------------------------------------------

  So then you concede the point that psychoanalysis is OK in some instances. But of course you don't put it in the form of a concession do you dear? No, you put in the form of a revelation, as though you were proving them wrong. I never saw anyone claim psychoanalysis was effective in all cases, just *some* as your "research" verifies. Yes, I'd say you were initially wrong, they were right and you found that out when you took the time to look into it. You were wrong, Tina was right. That's gotta hurt. Certainly explains your stalking behavior.

  Though I left it out, your cute little remark about not wanting to be accused of name-dropping, adorable dear. You apparently do not know the difference between citing a source and name-dropping. Because I do not consider you completely unteachable I will share with you the difference.

  Here is a source cited:

  It is clear that the distortions manifested in the psychosis are shown by the whole behavior of the person rather than the verbal expressions. Sigmund Freud

  Here's an example of name dropping without the name (a more rare sort of name-dropping):

  This afternoon, I will be on the campus of Wright State University. While there, I will visit the Wright State Proffesional School of Pshychology, and ask a friend, the assistant Dean, what she would recomend that I read, that is current.

  Perhaps she recommended the updated "reserach" presented above? You know where you conced the point without really conceding the point?

  Here's another good example which I explained at the time why it was more name-dropping than citing a source.

  :My depth of ignorance as you call it is based on the ideas of Albert Ellis, who was voted by his professional peers as being the third most influential Clinical Psychologist in the history of the field. His method of therapy was a major breakthough at a time when it became clear the Freud's method of treatment was very ineffective, per a classic study by Hans Eyzenck, a British Psychologist.

  See this was designed to belittle me, to make me feel foolish for criticizing your calluosness and lack of knowledge of your subject in the Self Esteem thread. Besides, you have to concede the point about psychoanalysis in a later thread so this tells me that your Eyzenck fellow, with his 50 year old breakthroughs might be a little behind the times too.

  One last thing Larc, you really do look quite foolish asking Tina and I repeatedly to "come out and play". We have little use for you, you don't much care for either of us so why don't you let it go? Hmmm? Why don't you spend your time a bit more constructively.

  Refiner's,

  I do not deny that Tina was the one who initially mentioned the names and not very nicely. But it is Larc who REPEATEDLY has been trying to bait her into a big flame war. Perhaps you haven't noticed it is Larc who is ending all his posts with asking Tina (and now me) to "come out and play"? See some of us can say our say and move on. We do not become completely absorbed by the nonsense that goes on here at this obscure, oh-so-small part of our lives DB. Apparently some cannot get over any sort of slight, small or big, real or perceived. It is a sad statement. Wouldn't you agree?

  Julie
• 

  think41self

  Gee Tally,

  Did I strike a nerve?

  I said it before and I'll say it again.

  NO KLASS

  If you're an example of a well adjusted, ex jw....then why is your life such a shambles? Why does almost every post of yours include vituperative attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with you? Maybe you should seek some therapy.

  P.S. Why don't you ask everyone on the board if any of them have been charged for Doug's book or help. It's been free buddy. But I'm afraid even a great book like it wouldn't be able to help you.

  think41self

  If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!