by dontplaceliterature 90 Replies latest jw friends
I think there are many believers who are hung up on a need for God in one way or another.
I think there are many unbelievers who had to overcome the same hang-up.
But it's not so clear cut for everyone.
I will tend to agree that in my case, I needed to get past a need for God. But even getting past that, most converts to atheism discover that the Bible or their doctrines are wrong and science has many answers.
I was always under the impression that the only reason that people worshiped was because of promises and rewards. Maybe in your particular case you are not concerned with a promise of eternal life. However, I would assume then, that you are more interested in how God is intervening in your daily activities to help you in some way or another. In this way, aren't you worshiping God because of a reward all the same?
I am sorry, I went out and did not see your question until now.
No, I am not more interested in how He is intervening in my daily activities. He does help me, and always has. But I follow Him out of love. That is the bottom line. Rewards or no rewards. I love Christ, and as Christ is the image of God, I love God. I believe in His teachings, and I want to follow Him. Not for a reward. Not at all.
I'm not trying to challange with you whether or not God exists, I know you believe that he does. I'm getting to the point of why it is you feel inclined to believe if it is not for the positive influence it has on your life, which I feel is a reward-based faith. Please advise.
I feel inclined to believe because the evidence has led me to Him. Though I will admit that there is no great turning point... I have always believed in Him. But I have not always known Him, through His Son.
It is not that I am inclinded to believe. He is real. I cannot NOT believe... unless I were to deny reality and lie to myself.
Peace,
tammy
I cannot say what it is that causes someone else to believe or not to believe. . . . tec
May I respectfully suggest this may be a good subject for research.
It has been my experience that "believers" are not comfortable with this subject and tend to ignore it. Identifying the causes for something goes a long way toward understanding the effect.
It is not that I am inclinded to believe. He is real. I cannot NOT believe... unless I were to deny reality and lie to myself.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Tammy,
You just admitted that you want to believe in God because you love him. He "helps" you. Thus, it follows you are believing because you feel it brings you a benefit. It brings you a reward in that you are "always helped." Please explain to me in what way you are worshiping for nothing? There certainly is a reward for you based on what you are saying here.
Are you saying that you would love Christ/God even if you were not helped? If so, why?
I think I see what you're saying DPL.
For me the antithetical relationship between life and death, is contained in the choice between the gospel and religion, or the choice between theism and atheism.
You just admitted that you want to believe in God because you love him. He "helps" you.
No... I want to follow Him because I love Him.
This has nothing to do with why I would believe He is real. You have to believe in someone BEFORE you can love them; else what/who would you be loving in the first place?
Thus, it follows you are believing because you feel it brings you a benefit. It brings you a reward in that you are "always helped."
I am sorry, but based on what I stated above, can you see how it does not follow?
Being helped, hearing him... these are all evidence toward knowing that He is real. Because if someone is active in your life (and the lives of others), then you do not tend to believe they do not exist.
Please explain to me in what way you are worshiping for nothing? There certainly is a reward for you based on what you are saying here.
Are you perhaps mixing up worshipping (which I would say, loving) with believing?
You have to believe before you worship (love).
Are you saying that you would love Christ/God even if you were not helped? If so, why?
I love because I am loved. I love for the gift of life, for the mercy and compassion and forgiveness granted so freely; for promises kept, for truth and loyalty, and for the sacrifice that Christ made for me, for us.
Were God a tyrant who cared about punishing, and dealing death out, and hating, and torturing... then i cannot imagine that I would love Him.
But it would have nothing to do with whether I believed in him or not. Simply whether I followed Him or not. Though if God were like that, none of us would have much of a choice, imo.
We only have the choice becasue God is as Christ showed him to be.
Now, if you are asking me whether or not I would continue to follow if there was no afterlife reward, or even a personal reward in this life? I say yes, as much as I can state with any certainty to an 'if' question.
We as humans love people who can be of no benefit to us, personally. We love them for who they are. We aren't looking for something in return when we love someone. We just want to do what will make them happy; what will make them pleased with us... simply because we love them. It naturally makes us happy, if we have made them happy.
Peace,
tammy
Tammy dear..... We are back at square one. You say the evidance lead you to him... What eviadance ? Is it truly evidance if everyone cant examine it....?
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EE, dear :
An important distinction in the field of evidence is that some circumstantial evidence and direct evidence, or evidence that suggests truth as opposed to evidence that directly proves truth. Many have seen this line to be less-than-clear and significant arguments have arisen
over the difference.
Circumstantial evidence is all that i can offer to you... because personal evidence is just that : personal. (Christ being foremost - and you have read my thread, so you understand what else)) But personal evidence is direct evidence for me. (Hearing Christ; having Christ and God answer prayers, questions, grant strength and peace, and fruits of the spirit as asked, etc.)
Peace,
tammy
One more reason not to even bother joining in the discussion, Zoinks. ;) I guess if you're insecure about your beliefs or are still angry at Zeus then it's a good place to tell everyone how smart you are and how stupid everyone else is. :D
but this post isn't telling people how smart and secure you are for not jumping in and discussing these threads.
I think I will jump into every thread just to tell people I am above discussing them...I'm sure everyone will enjoy reading my constant assuredness.
