any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds

by mind blown 65 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • blondie
    blondie

    I agree SBF, we have to consider the source of our information and David Icke is not well regarded. The WTS admits that they believed that literal Israel would be restablished. This changed in 1932. As to be part of a conspiracy or the Illuminati....not at all. I have found that having lived through certain events as an adult, one interested in current events, I am stunned when I hear the event described by someone who was not even born then. Looking at Russell's ideas in context of the people of his time, it is not unusual.

    ***Proclaimers book jv chap. 10 p. 141 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***

    Would God Restore the Jews to Palestine?The Bible Students were well aware of the many prophecies of restoration that were delivered to ancient Israel by God’s prophets. (Jer. 30:18; 31:8-10; Amos 9:14, 15; Rom. 11:25, 26) Down till 1932, they understood these to apply specifically to the natural Jews.Thus, they believed that God would show Israel favor again, gradually restoring the Jews to Palestine, opening their eyes to the truth regarding Jesus as Ransomer and Messianic King, and using them as an agency for extending blessings to all nations. With this understanding, Brother Russell spoke to large Jewish audiences in New York as well as in Europe on the subject “Zionism in Prophecy,” and Brother Rutherford, in 1925, wrote the book Comfort for the Jews.But it gradually became evident that what was taking place in Palestine with regard to the Jews was not the fulfillment of Jehovah’s grand restoration prophecies. Desolation came on first-century Jerusalem because the Jews had rejected God’s Son, the Messiah, the one sent in Jehovah’s name. (Dan. 9:25-27; Matt. 23:38, 39) It was becoming increasingly obvious that asapeople they had not changed their attitude. There was no repentance over the wrongful act committed by their forefathers. The return of some to Palestine was not motivated by any love for God or desire for his name to be magnified by fulfillment of his Word. This was clearly explained in the second volume of Vindication, which was published by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in 1932. The correctness of this position was confirmed in 1949, when the State of Israel, then recently formed as a nation and as a homeland for the Jews, became a member of the United Nations, thus showing that its trust was not in Jehovah but in the political nations of the world.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    Thank you all for posting, truly appreciated

    redvip2000 I've been wondering about this very thing. If you have more info please post.

    ScenicViewer Thank You sooooooooooooooo much. According to this letter, Russell did accept money from Baron Rothschild.

    slimboyfat I should have mentioned I copy/pasted that qoute. I know nothing of this Icke guy that's why I trying to find out

    blondie Thank You! You're always a wealth of information! Again this shows to me that Russell, like the now WTS changes views as they soon realize things are not as the thought/assumed (after the fact) and not by Divine Holy Spirit?

    Are the Freemasons one in the same? I will do research to find out the answer, but if anyone has more info, please post.

    When even when I was a child, the only thing I felt from the kingdom hall and my family dynamic was a deep sense of emptiness and even in the recent past when I've tried to reconcile, maybe there's truth to JW's, I get a real horrible feeling in my stomach that the WTS is a sick and twisted game...

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    redvip,

    All of that is wild speculation with no basis in FACT. The Russells were a protestant Irish family from Londonderry, Ireland. They were not German. Russell had no connection to Skull and Bones. Russell's uncle's will details the Londonderry connection, and at the time of the uncle's death there were still relations living in Derry. Russell was educated in Grant School in Pittsburgh, graduating from the Common School system then in use at the end of the seventh-grade. He had further education from a system of tutors sponsored by the YMCA who provided advanced courses for young men. All of this can be documented from available records.

    Nothing of the dreck you seem to believe can be proven except in the demented mind of one man who was convicted in Federal court for his unsavory conduct. (And unlike Rutherford, never "exonerated.") Show us the original records.

    C. T. Russell was not a Mason. Membership records for the Pittsburgh area lodges still exist. Neither his nor his father's name appears on any of them. His mother's brother was a Mason, but Russell was not.

    Russell contributed far more than Conley. More than twice as much. Conley stopped contributing in 1882. By that year he was off into the Faith Cure movement and diverting his gifts to further Faith Cure Homes.

    Sometimes I wonder if a tendency toward gullibility isn't what drew some of us to the Witnesses. Certainly having left them didn't cure some of us of the problem.

    Among those records which still exist are the citizenship records for J. L. Russell, a ship's list for his immigration, newspaper articles detailing Russell and related family matters, descriptions of Grant School, Presbyterian church records, an article detailing Russell's connection to "private tutors" with a supplementary article describing the YMCA education program.

    Present us with ONE record that proves Russell was a Mason or of German descent. It is time to stop being silly.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    "Thank You sooooooooooooooo much. According to this letter, Russell did accept money from Baron Rothschild. "

    WHERE in this letter does it say THAT?

    http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=14045.msg218905#msg218905

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    I suppose that this issue makes me cranky because I am by profession an educator and historian. I have a strong interest in Watchtower history. I'm a fan of Schulz and de Vienne's work in this area. Maybe you've read their book Nelson Barbour, the Millennium's Forgotten Prophet. They write well documented, readable history. Most of why you will find on the internet is not of that quality. For instance there is an essay claiming to be the best short history of the Watch Tower. It is four-fifths inaccurate. To qualify as "history" the research should be reproducible. You should be able to find the original source, consult it, and see in it what the writer saw. One cannot do that with most of what is on the internet, EVEN if it is footnoted. A footnote does not make something scholarly.

    When I was much younger than now the book None Dare Call it Treason was published. It caused a ripple through the student body where I taught. It was full of footnotes. I took a copy to our university library and went checking. The footnotes were faked. Beware of footnotes. Still you can tell much from the nature of footnotes an author uses. I can tell a huge amount about the quality of a student's research by the material he cites.

    I have in manuscript form the nearly finished chapter one of Schulz and de Vienne's next book. This chapter as it stands is fifty-two single spaced pages long and has 234 footnotes. Most of those footnotes are from original sources. I will append some examples taken from their work shortly. They point to the location of rare documents. If a book is remarkably rare, they tell you where they found it. I've spent hours fact checking this manuscript. I ended up with six questions which I sent to Mr. Schulz and Dr. de Vienne. I got prompt answers with full explanations. They re-wrote two footnotes to clarify the points I raised. THIS is what good (in this case Great) historical research is like.

    Here are some of the footnotes extracted from the first seven pages of their manuscript:

    To the Honorable Judges of the Court of Common Pleas in the Matter of Joseph L. Russell, dated October 26, 1846, found in Allegheny County Archives. A passenger list exists for a Joseph Russell of the right age dated 30 May 1839. That Joseph entered through Boston and is listed as a laborer. He departed from Liverpool on the ship Massasolt, traveling alone. There is, however, no way to connect that Joseph with Joseph Lytle Russell.

    Crew Lists of Vessels Arriving at Boston, National Archives Microfil T938, Roll M277-12.

    United States Census: 1840. Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania, Roll 441, page 477. U. S. Naturalization Indexes 1791-1992.

    Death of Thomas Birney, Pittsburgh Press, January 17, 1899.

    Obituary: Charles T. Russell, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Post, December 27, 1874. His death record says he died of chronic hepatitis.

    Death of Thomas Birney, Pittsburgh Press, January 17, 1899. The obituary misnames his partner as James R. Woodwell. The membership list for St. John’s Lodge is found in An Address Delivered at the Request of St. John’s Lodge, no. 219, F. & A.M. at the 444th Stated Meeting, April 12th, 1883, on the History of the Lodge, and the Establishment of Freemasonry in Pittsburgh. Thomas Birney’s name appears in the membership list on page 112. No Russells find a place on the list, nor do they receive other mention.

    Historical and Biographical Annals of Columbia and Montour Counties, Pennsylvania, J. H. Beers & Co., Chicago, 1915, volume 1, page 339

    Centenary Memorial of the Planting and Growth of Presbyterianism in Western Pennsylvania, 1876, page 141.

    Encyclopedia of Genealogy and Biography of the State of Pennsylvania, Lewis Publishing, New York, 1904, volume 1, pages 427-428.

    The Presbyterian Church Throughout the World, De Witt C. Lent & Co, New York, 1874, pages 709-710.

    Indenture dated September 4, 1855, on file in Allegheny County archives.

    Thurston’s Directory of Pittsburgh and Allegheny City: 1860-1861, page 273.

    Robert Speel and Florence Cook: Relatives of Charles Taze Russell, Typescript manuscript. No date.

    Died, Pittsburgh Dispatch, January 26, 1861.

    See W. A. Lare and W. M. Hartzell: The Rebellion Record of Allegheny County, from April, 1861 to October, 1862: Containing the Narrative of the Organization of Companies and Regiments, the Pecuniary aid Tendered by Corporations and Individuals; the History of the Home Guards; the Operation of the Draft and the list of Exempts, Pittsburgh, 1862.

    Ann Eliza’s will was filed with Franklin County, Iowa, on June 7, 1862. The filing is indexed as “Copy of Will,” and Ann Eliza Russell is listed as Grantor, Thomas Birney as Grantee. The earliest ownership record for the property in question (NE ¼ of Section 8 Township 91 Range 20, Reeve Township, Franklin County, Iowa.) is in Thomas Birney’s name. The record says he acquired the property from the Tax List. We are not absolutely certain that the original purchaser was Ann’s brother. It may have been her father. We simply do not know. Earlier records do not exist. There is no date on the original Birney purchase. Historical circumstances point to a purchase date of after 1851. Reeve Township was first surveyed that year. More likely, we’re looking at a date nearer to 1855 when the county divisions were first called “Townships.” – see Franklin County Historical Society Quarterly Newsletter, March 2009.

    C. T. Russell: Joseph L. Russell Deceased, Zion’s Watch Tower, January 1, 1898, pages 4-5.

    L. Jones [editor]: What Pastor Russell Said: His Answers to Hundreds of Questions, pages 40, 50, 158.

    C. T. Russell: Take No Thought for Tomorrow, Zion’s Watch Tower, August 1886, page 5.

    If the material you read on the Internet does not document its assertions with original source material of a similar nature, at the very least you should be cautious. Never take a writer's word for it. Never trust a footnote. Any fool or crook can write one. Assume some personal responsibility for what goes into your mind. Check. And do not read into something what is not there, just because you wish it to be there.

    I'm sorry, but I can't post Schulz and de Vienne's work here. They own the blog I mentioned above. It's by invitation only. Contact one of them and ask about reading it, if you're that curious. They take a limited number of readers and readership rules are strict. The look for those who though they may not be experts in the field have a deep interest and who may be able to further their research.

    I have issues with Watchtower governance and practice, but I would have fewer issues if the Society had produced a detail, forthright and accurate history, something like what Schulz and his partner write.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    "Your charities and the those of Baron Rothschild and those of Moses Montefior have been productive of great good and still benificial (except, perhaps the payment of so many francs per head to support some of the colonists etc.......)

    One can be Illuminati without being a mason. Proves nothing.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    That's not a reference to money sent to Russell. That's a reference to the jewish settlements sponsored by Hirsh and Rothschild. Russell did not sponsor those settlements. No money went to Russell.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    sorry about the crazy formatting on the previous post. I have no clue what happened, and it wont let me fix it.

  • Quentin
    Quentin

    Sometimes I wonder if a tendency toward gullibility isn't what drew some of us to the Witnesses. Certainly having left them didn't cure some of us of the problem...Old Goat...

    True, I have observed many ex-jw's, or any ex cult member, have to replace what they left behind with something that gives them solace. The wtbts is itself a consprancy based belife system.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    I was just going to correct my post to refect after re reading that it could also mean contributions to other charities.......but maybe not.....the thing is he is still smoozing a Rothschild......even his moral compass was sick, selfish, immoral and a lier.....so that's the guy God choose to carry his name....serious?

    Why does it sound so abusrd that WTS could be infected in such a manner? After all they were in bed with the UN. They also teach to believe many untruths? The say one thing but do another? Mind Control, obey the GB or else......??

    Solice? Really? If I could find a shred of truth, I would go back in a minute.....but there's none! There's others that need to hear the truth about the truth...that are ensnard but can't escape.......

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