My mother is trying to indoctrinate my 4 year old and I do not know what to do (page 4)

Morbidzbaby

Sorry you're having to deal with this. My personal opinion is in line with that of the others here. If she cannot respect your wishes for her to refrain from speaking about her religious ideologies to your son, then she cannot have the PRIVILEGE of being in his life. That's right. It's a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT.

Your wife needs to respect your position on this matter as well and not allow her child to be spoken to about this junk. I think you should have a serious talk about it with her and let her know exactly where you stand. After all, this is YOUR mother, YOU know her better, and YOU know what to expect from her. If you make it known that she's not allowed to contact your son (if she keeps up this nonsense), then your wife needs to respect that.

Please keep us updated!

TD

I've gone through the same thing. I know it's disturbing, but Zac is only four. School, the desire to fit in socially and the more sophisticated attitude of an older child are just around the corner.

I don't know this for sure, but I imagine that it's not easy to grow up as a JW. It probably takes constant reinforcement throughout childhood clear up to at least the middle teens. I can't picture a child getting this from periodic vists from a grandparent.

wisdomfrombelow

I don't know if I can add more that what was already said but you definitely need to have a clear and firm set of boundaries given to your mother. Before that, you need to discuss it clearly with your wife so you both can be in agreement. As others have said, you need to talk to your son. There is no way to really insulate and protect our children against the outside world. I hate to think of children being used as a tool by anyone. Grandparents have a lot to offer and if they need to be supervised then so be it.

Giordano

Your mother is trying to plant seeds while Zak is young and defenseless. Children are brought up to be respectful to adults, especially family members....unfortunately this also makes them vulnerable. At it's worse this is what Pedophiles count on. If they are part of the family circle they have unusual access to the children they 'need' to seek out. Your mother is not a pedophile but she is violating your rules by trying to indoctrinate your son. She thinks she is doing the right thing for all the right reasons. For some reason your wife is allowing your mother to have access. You might ask her that if on some occasion you allowed your mother to take care of Zak while you and your wife took a vacation and he needed an emergency life saving blood transfusion and was prevented from getting one what would she think then? Hopefully it might drive home the dangerous belief system JW'S have evolved. Remember that Awake celebration to the little martyrs? So yes, you need to be clear about this with your wife. Perhaps you should inform your mother that since the JW's practice shunning she should understand and appreciate the consequences if she continues to disrespect your rules and family. She will just have to wait until Zak is 18 and can make up his own mind.......thats what I told my mother and sister.

nugget

Just think how much damage a motivated manipulative adult can do. Paedophiles groom children in nurturing families all the time. If she is determined and you and your wife are not she can have an immense influence on your child. Your wife needs to be united with you on this one. This is not a harmless grandparent you are dealing with.

Your son sounds lovely but it's never to early giving him the skills to see through the nonsense. Preempt some of the things she may address with your son so that he isn't ambushed. The thinking atheist you tube podcasts teach children how to reason on religion it may need to be adapted for his age but it is a starting point.

Paralipomenon

I don't know if there's a way you can get the message across without triggering a shunning.

While we were fading, my mom knew we weren't being very spiritual and kicked up her "preaching" work to our sons. Any time she was minding our children it was like a nonstop Jehovah lesson.

"look at the birds, do you like birds? Do you know who made the birds? Jehovah did, because he loves you"

"You know about Christmas, did you know that it makes Jehovah sad, even though it looks like fun"

Stuff like this pissed me off.

As we were coming up on our first Christmas we sat our oldest down to talk to him about it. He was very hesitant about it. His comments solidified for me what effect my mom's preaching was having. He wasn't sure that he wanted to celebrate Christmas, not becuase it was wrong, or pagan or Jehovah doesn't like it, but his explanation was that it would make Nana sad and he didn't want to make her sad.

The whole message she was trying to teach him about Jehovah, didn't sink in, it was his Nana telling hm these things, not Jehovah so it was HER he didn't want to upset.

It was then that I chose to make things formal with my parents and told them I wasn't a witness anymore. My mom informed me that they would need to shun us but then wanted to make arrangements for us to bring our children over. They were just potential converts for her.

The end result is, when a child gets two different messages, it just serves to confuse them. While your mom no doubt understands that, she will need to decide what is more important to her, preaching to her grandchild or being a grandparent. It's well within your parental rights to ask her to choose. The down point is, without the ability to convert, will she then switch over to full shunning?

It always sickened me how easily witness parents could flip a switch and turn love into hate.

skeeter1

I had to deal with a few things along the way.

First, right after the first born, the parents came to visit and decided to get the local KH to come by our house, ALOT. I was nice, at first. Big problem. They kept coming back. So, I finally had to tell the local brothers, "Did my parents get you up to this?" THey replied, "Yes." I said, "Please stop. I don't want you to come here any more."

Then, the parents tried to preach to us directly. That was about 2002. I found out about the many Generation understandings after 1914, and that the wonderful Society allows followers to go to college. Well, I just about had a fit. "What?!? You mean the Generation of 1914 is going to or could die? That was a cornerstone of the Truth when I was in it. Just like the cornerstone on 1975 when I grew up. The Society gets alot of things wrong, for it to be the Truth." Of course, that was followed by "New Light", to which I laughed them out of the fricken house.

So, problem solved?

Nope. A few years ago, pops comes to visit. He wants to take the oldest to the Kingdom Hall, "To show off." We said, "NO" in a stern voice. He called the elders back home, who told him that he should respect the husband's decision. Got to love the elders sometimes.

Then, at another visit, pops wants to read my kids the story of Noah's Ark. I said, "No, I hate that story. It's the worst one in the Bible, and definately not for children. It's not supported by any historical fact or evidence of a worldwide flood." That sent him away. He got the point.

Then, I had to tell them that I understood that the Society tells grandparents they are blood guilty if they don't try to convert grandkids. I told them that they would not be blood guilty, I would be. (But, I did this in a nice way).

Then, I had to innocultate the kids.

Oh, on Christmas. Buy the Dr. Seuss book, The Grinch who Stole Christmas. Great book to read with your kids.

Dagney

I hate to see kids getting mixed messages. Some figure it out and do what they want, others feel guilty in dissappointing say the grandmother if they love holidays and birthday...leaving them conflicted and confused. Hate that.

I think Billy has a great suggestion if you are not ready to lay down the law yet with your mother. If you are ready, sometimes that turns out ok. Sweet pea said this week her MIL is now in contact with them and the kids after several years of shunning. She said the draw of the grandchildren overcame the rigedness she had for all those years. I think she would think twice before she crossed Sam and Paul again.

This Jehovah thing is a tough one. It seems so innocent to some, ("look at the pretty flower Jehovah made..."), but it's really not. **sigh**

I hate this crap. Thinking of you.

ziddina

"I think it is possibly more damaging that I am indicating to him that his grandmother is lying to him, or is deluded, then the teachings she is infecting him with about a God that only loves Watchtower followers. ..." OP

Speaking from personal experience, my parents were dreadful liars - and it took me far too long to figure that out, what with the hitting, kicking, slapping, belittling and insults they used to bully me into the cult.

Let's face it, your mother IS lying - not only to her grandson, but to herself also.

The sooner your son learns that people might be lying to him - and more importantly, that people can and do lie to themselves - the earlier he will be armed against the dysfunctional behaviors of humans in general.

All you need do, is show him how to question - and research - and I don't think that the age of 4 is too young to start.

I started "rockhounding" at the age of 5. That led to my questioning the "divine" inspiration of the bible when I was 7 - 8 years old.

No, it's never too early to start educating children, even in subjects that YOU think they won't understand.

Kids will surprise you, with the depth of their understanding.

Make sure he gets a thorough education in the thrills of the scientific world, too, just to offset the fundie Christian propaganda that is rife throughout America's school systems today...

jookbeard

Paul, I thought you were having these problems with your MIL?

My mother is trying to indoctrinate my 4 year old and I do not know what to do

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