Bethel - the house of the canaanite god El

by mP 73 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Leolaia
    Ancient Greeks (Ionians), among other Gods, worshipped Iaon (God of the rain?-compare deluge).

    Source? I have never heard of a Greek god named "Iaon". I think you mean Ion (Iων), who was the eponymous ancestor of the Ionians; cf. Javan (Yawan), the son of Japheth in the Table of Nations and Javan as a name for "Greece" in the OT. Japheth is also thought to derive from the Titan named Iapetus (Iαπετυς) from Greek mythology, so the Hebrew representation of the origin of the Greeks probably has a Greek source, perhaps via the Sea Peoples who settled on the Levantine coast (especially the Philistines). Also Ion wasn't a rain god, nor had any connection with the Deucalion deluge traditions iirc (which are thought to have been cross-fertilized from the Mesopotamian flood myths via Asia Minor).

    Iaon=Ionian. It is clear that Ionians got their name from their God Iaon.

    Umm, its probably the reserve. Eponyms derived from the tribal name...just as in the sons of Jacob whose names are derived from the actual tribes. We know that the tribal names have priority because they have geographical meaning....Benjamin being located in the south in Palestine, Naphtali being the highlands, Ephraim being the fertile farmlands, etc.

    Iaon = YHWH.

    Why? What relation do the names have beyond some kind of superficial resemblence? This is like saying Lazarus is derived from El-Osiris. There is no basis for equating the West Semitic cult of Yahweh with an obscure eponymous ancestor of the Ionians (whom I'm not sure if there was even a cult of, as opposed to being a character from mythology).

    Another Greek word that bears the name of YHWH is iahi (=battle cry).

    So which is it? This is a totally different supposed source. And where is it attested that this was a war cry in Greek?

    In fact, YHWH (in the form YHW) was first attested by the Egyptians in the 18th Dynasty as a PN associated with the Edomites, long before the incursion of Greek-speaking Sea Peoples into the Levant (later on in the 19th Dynasty).

    So they were shouting/calling the name of Yah, their God, and threw themselves in the battle.

    There is not a single scholar on the ANE that has suggested that.

    Of course Baal along with human sacrifices to him is not absent from ancient Greece either.

    Which Baal? "Baal" is simply the word for "lord" and was applied to many gods. Most of the references to Baal in the OT were to Baal-Hadad, the storm/rain god, who was syncretized to Yahweh. There was another Baal introduced into the Northern Kingdom from Phoenicia who was probably Melqart, and this god was possibly associated with human sacrifice. But the god in the OT associated with this was Molech, and this probably pertains to the Milku from Ugarit who was a sort of chthonic deity....and the connection between the two is more ambiguous. Also El was associated with human sacrifice among the later Punic Phoenicians, under the name Baal-Hammon (his identity with El is confirmed by classical writers who referred to him as Kronos or Saturn).

    Even today the name of a town/suburb near Athens bears his name: Pallini.

    LOL. Are you seriously claiming this??

    From ancient Greek texts we find that the name of the suburb was then Ballini which is a clear derivative of the plural of Baal: Baalim.

    "Clearly"?? What? There is nothing clear about that at all. Just an instance of inexact phonetic similarity without any supporting evidence of a historical connection, or even sources to substantiate the claim.

    BTW the name was spelled Παλληνη in Greek, so your vowels appear to be wrong, and what is your source about the initial "p" originally being "b"? If one wants to find a mythological origin of the name, one could find no better phonetic parallel than Παλληνη, one of the Alkyonides. No similarily whatsoever to Baal; for starters Παλληνη was female, and the Alkyondies had been transformed into birds.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    marking...I second that rock!

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises


  • glenster

    Some things are the same now. Look at the founders of the three main
    Abrahamic religions.

    Moses and Muhammad wanted religion law of the land w/the death penalty for
    apostasy, homosexuality, etc.

    Jesus and followers never said they wanted their religion as law of the land.
    The law was over at crucifixion and they were to go among the Jews and Gentiles
    of the world.

    So you have a choice between two Republicans and one Democrat.

  • cheerios

    game, set and match to leo!

    maybe that other poster is one of the noted watchtower scholars ...

  • Jeffro
    We see the same references to El, all over Jehovahs organisation, just examine some other terms such as EL der, beth EL, beth EL ite.

    Etymology of the word elder is entirely unrelated to the Hebrew term.

  • mP


    your comment probably comes from people who wish to hide the pagan el connection. we have the same sort of strange meani g given to israel, when it is obvious it is a trinity of three pagan names combined.


    many of the twelve tribe names themselves are taken from local deities, such as dan which means judge. i cant recall the other brother but there is another whose name also means judge or similar.the twelve tribes brothers is about uniting this confederation, the levites later tried to impose total control on religion and worship because of the shear wealth involved. the fact that nearly ten percent of all israel could live from just performing priestly duties shows just how much income was spent by locals. lets not forget back in those days the temples also ran prostitution entertainments, hence the strange laws about not castrating men etc. after all how would anyone know unless someone checked on a regular basis. holy and prostitute are very close in ancient hebrew, its not surprise when one underatands these customs.

  • mP


    lazarus is every close to osiris. take a look at lazarus not in its english form but rather in hebrew and the two are almost identical. if tgey are false frirnds then explain the other similiarities between both characters. its not hard to see the later story being based on the egyptian.

  • Nambo


    From reading your article about Yahweh originally being a son of the creator God El, along with your reference to Daniel 7 and Israel being apportioned to Yahweh, is it possible that Jesus was Yahweh and that when he was on Earth and praying to his Father in Heaven, he wasnt praying to Jehovah, but to El?

    Or am I just getting even more confused.

  • La Falta Habitacion Por Sr Hor-Hey!!
    La Falta Habitacion Por Sr Hor-Hey!!

    Leo, sheesh LOL.

    Everytime I read one of Leo's posts I think of Kim Clijsters and my own ignorance of history and the Bible.

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