Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  sabastious

  Taking away human ignorance of the (gods), along with fear, superstition, fateful corruption by men who say they in the power of these said gods and applying open human scientific discovery to the world we live in and of are selfs, which world would you rather live in ? Sab.

  People fear typhoons, earthquakes and dying of starvation. That is what creates the environment of the type of fear you are talking about. Godly fear is very different and it aids in the progression of humankid rather than stifles it. You seem to operate on the false assumption that theism cannot bring humanity out of that fear. It's an incredibly arrogent position to take. You are essentially saying that your world view is the only solution to mankinds problems. That's what creates utilitarianism. Killing the idea of God is evil, very evil. Don't partake in it.

  -Sab
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  Finkelstein

  The ending question that should finally be considered is ....

  Would mankind be better off perceiving the world we live with the appealing suggestion of a creating deity or without such recognition,

  withholding this idealogical thought until further evidence is found ?
• 

  NewChapter

  Discussing ideas is evil? It is evil to hold an idea contrary to yours? And you throw around the arrogant card?

  I don't wish to kill the idea of a god. As evidence, check out my response to the recent petition put here. And perhaps YOUR concept of god has not stifled progress, but that has not been true of the majority of history, nor is it true of many today. For those that think like you, that other ideas are evil, they feel justified in hijacking science classes, discriminating against homosexuals, and holding women in subjection. There was a time when they also used their notion of god to support slavery and genocide. Some still do. So it is fair for us to look at this notion, and even be critical---even deny it.

  What is it's fruitage? I've said before I'm not impressed with the Catholic churches charity efforts in Africa when they teach that birthcontrol, and condems for prevention of disease, is evil. As far as I'm concerned, they are cleaning up their own mess. That validates them to believers, but not to me. And there is that long bloody history of crusades, inquistions and witch trials (which was really just killing those that might still be hanging on to vestiges of non-christian religions). They build grand churches as the homeless sleep on the street. I know, I know, there are grand secular buildings too. But those are honest. They aren't in the business of charity.

  So I don't wish to kill any ideas. I just wish to poach the believers.

  NC
• 

  sabastious

  That's a false dichotomy Finkelstein. We wouldn't be better off killing off all the atheists or the believers. We need both to survive, which was always the case. As Tammy said so well, we have to work together in order to solve our problems. Asking questions like "would we be better off without God?" is fundamentally contrary to human progression. We have tried eugenics for eons and it doesn't do anything but maybe bring short spurts of prosperity. We have to truly unify as a species which is what Jesus said.

  What's interesting is that the OP video shows God watching and doing nothing when in reality he's just waiting for us to pull our collective heads our of our asses. Which to a point is happening right now, but we have atheists that are waging a war.

  -Sab
• 

  tec

  What exactly was ludicrous? People are victims of crime, and god does nothing to protect. You agree. People starve, and god lets it happen. You agree. Monsters roam the earth and do horrific things to huge groups of people. You agree. What part was ludicrous? Or are you really saying that because of his wisdom, we have no right to question the inaction of a god that believers are always trying to assure us is loving and powerful?

  I was speaking in general.

  I also said that the question of suffering is a valid question. I just don't think people like the possible (and also valid) answers to it.

  We agree 100%. And so, we are both operating as though there is no god. People do things. Others suffer. The existence of a god that does not act, and no god at all changes nothing about this.

  Not really accurate. Knowing God and having His son and spirit, comforts and brings both peace and strength... even during times of suffering. I think that you will find few people with faith in God who will blame him for their suffering, but you will find many who rely on Him to help see them through their suffering.

  I do not know about the future... but right now, it is up to us to to make the changes to help stop suffering. If we turn our heads or do nothing or contribute to suffering even once, then we have no leg to stand on in blaming God for the suffering, or for not ending the suffering we are causing.

  Are you a slave for god? Did Jesus condone slavery? Did he ever say set the slaves free?

  I am whatever I choose to be. No one forces me into anything. I choose to serve God and His Son (as poorly as I might be doing that) Not condemning something outright is not the same as condoning it. Telling people to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, does take care of that though. As well as him not purchasing slaves for himself, or taking slaves for himself.

  Perhaps not, but we certainly have not found that world by nourishing the notion of a god either. On the contrary, such notions have even intensified suffering at times.

  And eased it at other times.

  Possibly, but I think you are letting god belief off the hook. Believers weren't always the pawns of kings, on the contrary, it was often reversed. I suppose you are right though. If someone is cutting people up with an axe, what sense does it make to take away the axe---they will only pick up a machete.

  Wow. We agree on something on this topic ;)

  Again we both agree that malnutrition is often brought on by the actions of humans. So again, we are both operating in a god free zone here. The planet has the food, we won't share. God is absolved of all inaction. It is up to us. Let's not waste time praying and

  building churches.

  I don't think praying is the wast of time responsible for anything. Praying can be done while you're doing anything else. As for churches, I assume you're referring to 'big business' churches. Like the rock star evangelical things and such? I agree, money would be better spent elsewhere. At the same time, many other churches are responsible for a lot of the charities and giving to the poor and needy in our cities. Secular non-faith groups are going to have to step it up before they can speak against the faith charities. Because at least right now, someone is running these organizations and charities. Now, you know I'm not religious. But I won't attempt to slam something that is giving time and money to the needy of society, and where I am, that comes free with no obligation for anything. Just people trying to follow the words of Christ. More power to them; I couldn't care less if they are right or wrong in their beliefs.

  If this were true, then the faithful would be healed. The unfaithful would never go into spontaneous remission. Children that are still too young for faith---nevermind---it only gets stickier. One must have faith to be healed---but don't count on it. I'm sure such a notion brings a great deal of comfort to the faithful that are suffering terribly. The problem is their faith.

  There are other reasons. Affliction of the flesh is affliction of the flesh and most of faith understand this and know that they are more than their physical bodies. Some simply accept that. And most (imo, including myself) do not have that kind of faith that knows and does not have a moment of doubt. Even Peter, knowing Christ is there and also walking on water... doubted. Out of fear.

  So this is a part of the bible that you believe was accurately transmitted and not corrupted in any way. But if I were to point out some of the atrocities, you would tell me that we don't need to accept that part. Good to know. Walking on water---yes. Genocide---not so much.

  Look at Christ to know what is or is not truth. Since Christ IS the truth. Did Christ promote genocide or commit it? Then genocide is out.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  designs

  Zeus.Danae.Perseus

  Why break up a winning team...
• 

  sabastious

  I don't wish to kill the idea of a god. As evidence, check out my response to the recent petition put here. And perhaps YOUR concept of god has not stifled progress, but that has not been true of the majority of history, nor is it true of many today. For those that think like you, that other ideas are evil, they feel justified in hijacking science classes, discriminating against homosexuals, and holding women in subjection. There was a time when they also used their notion of god to support slavery and genocide. Some still do. So it is fair for us to look at this notion, and even be critical---even deny it.

  I really don't want to discuss this with you any longer. The solution is so simple and you refuse to acknowledge it. You are against the abuse of the idea of God, not the idea of God in itself. Being a poacher DOESN'T solve anything and creates even more problems. By insisting on calling someone who believes in a 6 day creation intellectually deficient, you are doing nothing but starting a war and encouraging obstinate. YOU MUST LOVE YOUR ENEMIES or you will become just like them eventually.

  -Sab
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  NewChapter

  Sab, do you think an atheist can be qualified to be President of the US?
• 

  Finkelstein

  That's what creates utilitarianism. Killing the idea of God is evil, very evil. Don't partake in it.

  Or would that create uniformity appealing solely to humanistic values for mankind ?

  What purpose does God have without the terrible damage that controlling religions have upon mankind ?

  And yes there is much plausible evidence of that as well.

  How would one identify a God and its purposeful relationship with mankind without these maligning corrupt religions controlled by men ?
• 

  tec

  YOU M UST LOVE YOUR ENEMIES or you will become just like them eventually.

  Profound.

  We do see this in history.

  People use the same methods to defeat their enemies, and often these are the same methods that they condemn in their enemies in the first place. We need a new way. Loving your enemies might well accomplish this.

  Peace,

  tammy