Help! HLC member coming

by PrincessCynic 63 Replies latest members private

• 

  Dogpatch

  BTW, I just talked to Zen about this as he called the Service Dept. yesterday or the day before, and they gave him the "no response" tactic, saying take it up with your elders. So from now on, according to the April 9 BOE letter, apparently this policy is already in full effect. I'll bet y'all a dollar he was responsible for part of the letter being sent out, as this stuff must be really shaking them up.

  If any of you have the balls, try calling them yourself now on a doctrine or policy. :-))

  Those days are over! And I guarantee you that probably 40% of the elders will unknowingly give outdated information. :-))

  They need to believe in the unholy trinity.

  Elders are also kept in the dark and fed bulls^^&t. Just like mushrooms. They will be treated minimaly better if they call in, I guarantee you. The tone of the April 9 BOE letter is unusually harsh.

  How The Watchtower's Unholy Trinity Speaks

  Randy
• 

  ziddina

  Randy, I understand what you're saying - the Watchtower Corporation has always said one thing to the rank&file, and then pursued a different course "behind-the-scenes", but...

  The problem that DiamondDiz and others have pointed out, that the elders would go by the "Shepherding" book and wouldn't think of calling "Mother", is a valid concern.

  The covert policy may be different, but according to the "Shepherding" book, PrincessCynic may - MAY - be considered to have "DA'd" herself - especially if she cannot shed a few 'crocodile' tears of "repentance" if/when the elders question her.

  PrincessCynic, congratulations!! As others have also said, I hope you have a trouble-free delivery, and that all of these potential problems fail to show their ugly faces... Including the HLC...
• 

  Shawn10538

  Willingly and unrepentantly taking blood.
  If someone willingly takes blood, perhaps because
  of being under extreme pressure, the committee
  should obtain the facts and determine
  the individual's attitude. If he is repentant the
  committee would provide spiritual assistance in
  the spirit of Galatians 6: 1 and Jude 22, 23. Since
  he is spiritually weak, he would not qualify for
  special privileges for a period of time, and it may
  be necessary to remove certain basic privileges.
  Depending on the circumstances, the committee
  may also need to arrange for an announcement
  to the congregation: "'The elders have
  handled a matter having to do with [name
  of person]. You will be glad to know that
  spiritual shepherds are endeavoring to render
  assistance." On the other hand, if the elders
  on the committee determine that he is
  unrepentant, they should announce his disassociation.

  Listen, This is what the Watchtower SAYS, not what the Watchtower DOES. It's that simple. I am willing to stick my neck out there and invite you all to chop it off if I am wrong about this. But the Watchtower is just not going to DA anybody ever again over the blood issue and probably never has. I dare anybody to come up with a case of it EVER happening. But it has to be a verifiable case. I have to talk with the person personally for me to be convinced that it was really just about the blood transfusion. The case of Maribel Perez is an example of a person who had a revelation from God, as it says in the article about her, so the Maribel Perez is not a case of DAing over the blood issue per se. She really dfid disassociate herself.

  But I can not convince anybody really that they will not disassociate for this. All I can say is, "Where is the body count?' All these years of blood doctrine and nobody ever DFd ort DAd for it? Really? There must have been tens of thousands of JWs since 1961 who have taken blood transfusions. tens of thousands. And not a siongle case can anybody name? I have never heard of a person being DFd for this in MY life as a JW, which was extensive as you all know. Thousands of JWs I have known. And never a one DFd for blood? randy watters has never heard of a single case. Out of everyone on JWN, this person, princess Cynic and Marvin Shilmer are the only ones to have claimed to know someone DFd over blood. And without talking to the victims I can't verify, and neither can they that it was really just about blood.

  So, I am not just declaring that nobody will ever be DAd over this issue, I am saying "COME JOIN ME IN ANNOUNCING TO THE WORLD THE FRAUD OF THE WATCHTOWER MAKING IDLE THREATS AGAINST ITS PEOPLE CAUSING THEIR DEATHS WHEN THEY NEVER HAD ANY INTENTION OF ENFORCING THIS RULE."

  I think it might be kind of like the death penalty in California. If I can recollect, there has not been an execution in decades. Lots of people on death row, but no executionjs. Maybe there will never be one again. It seems likely that we have seen the last execution in California history, and as a Blue state, i think the general public will always be against executions. The law may never be recended. But I seriously doubt we'll ever have an execution again. Even some real evil murderers have been pardoned or had a stay of execution.

  So, it's a matter of creating a social protest to shout from the mountain tops and DARE the watchtower Society to DA someone. I DARE them to do it. because I am going to run their name through the mud with every cell in my body and every penny I ever make if they do it. It will be the crusade of my lifetime to condemn them if they do it. And I hope you are all with me on this. Band on the Run, I know you won't be. But everybody else. Just stop saying that they DA over this. STOP SAYING IT, and start declaring that it is all an empty threat. MAKE them have to do it even. It is a smoke screen of the most heinous kind.

  I guess we all have to decide if we want to take their instructions to elders seriously. If you BELIEVE the Watchtower when they say they will do it. well, then you believe the Watchtower. I don't. I'm CALLING THEIR BLUFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. And that's the sound of the big fart they are laying on you all. Jokes on you if you believe them.
• 

  jwfacts

  You cannot get disfellowshipped for something you have not said or done, as long as you do not show a bad attitude in not doing anything (if that makes sense.)

  Therefore, at this stage just say you think you pregnancy is a personal experience and you do not want to meet with them. They will say how important the blood issue is; tell them you have it undercontrol, and stand firm not to see them. Just do not tell them why.

  Blood is unlikely to be needed, so having to worry about being d/f for a transfusion is not worth worrying about at this stage when you should be relaxing for the sake of the developing child.
• 

  iCeltic

  The OP has said on this thread that she personally knows someone who was disfellowshipped for taking blood last year.
• 

  Band on the Run

  If you have an older statement on file, you need to affirmatively repudiate it. It would be worth some money to a lawyer to make certain every base was covered. The hospital administration should know that JW employees do not keep info confidential and that patients are terrified.

  Medicine seems to respect privacy and autonomy. What is an elder going to know about bloodless surgery that a board certified surgeon does not? Any large hospital will have a track record of negotiating with patients. The HLC is not even a party. Their authority stems from you believe and not wanting to stir up trouble. A baby's life is worth the trouble.

  Blood transfusions cost and I don't see the NHS handing them out wily nily.

  We are raised to be deferential even when it is clear against our interests. Once you research, you need to commit actions. Not being able to decide what to do is a major problem. Neither wish may be granted.

  Tradition, law, and practice are all on your side. They are nothing but a cult like sect. I laugh at my former beliefs now. Yet I also recall how crippling and confusing they were.
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  You can always say that you don't wish to meet with the HLC. You're a big girl and you and your husband will handle whatever situation comes up. The elders will then say "but we want to make sure you're taken care of in the event of an emergency". I'd respond by saying "thank you....but again...i do not wish to meet. My husband and I will take care of it"

  You cannot be DFd for answering in that manner.....but unless your elders are retarded, they will know WHY you don't want to meet. They will see that your meeting attendance and service time is down and they will read between the lines and determine that you are fading. Then it is a matter of how aggressive your local elders are. some elders will allow you to successfully fade into teh night. Others will hound you/investigate/entrap until they have sufficient grounds to form a committee.
• 

  rebel8

  I'm a healthcare executive and an ex-jw with a severe bleeding disorder. I'm in the US though.
  
  I don't understand why this is even on their radar. Labor and delivery does not normally involve blood transfusions.
  I guess what I'm wondering is whether the HLC are actually useful, like if they're around I'd be likely to get better treatment.
  
  Again I do not know how things work in your country but here that is definitely not the case. Medical professionals know their stuff and do not take advice from meddling window washers, they lol about them in the break room.
  
  The only thing they can do is interfere with your medical care.
  he'd order a pregnancy pack from the society
  
  Good lord, what is a pregnancy pack I wonder?!
• 

  Balaamsass

  Df'd for blood? I knew a couple in 1975. they were in their 70s. Very cruel. I knew an Elder who OK'd his wife's taking blood in 2007. Because of privacy laws no one could repudiate his story that the hospital did it without his permission. The Society insisted he sue the hospital. He drug his feet and said his heart couldn't take the strain and neither could his wife!! LOL He always turned in 12-15 hrs of field service as well, yet no one had ever seen him out in many years. :) I laugh about it now- back then it upset me that he lied and gamed the system.

  I heard from a Silicon Valley HLC member a couple of weeks ago they were being disbanded. Has anyone else heard this?
• 

  PrincessCynic

  Thought you'd like a update.

  I couldn't really get out of meeting them, when the elder phoned to tell me he was coming I didn't catch his name or where he was from so I couldn't very easily cancel, anyway I was a little curious about what they'd say.

  Fortunately I wasn't asked to sign anything and since it was assumed I agreed with the policy and was against taking blood anyway, there was no attempt to pressure me on the issue and absolutely no desire on their part to discuss anything doctrinal.

  The pregnancy pack they give out consists of a list of non-blood alternatives to give to a consultant and some photocopies of old awake articles about healthy living in pregnancy (like I couldn't get access to that kind of information elsewhere ).

  I don't think they'll be bothering me anymore, they said they'd phone in a few months to see how I am and gave us contact details in case we needed them at the hospital. I might have 'accidentally' misplaced those.

  They told me that as a Witness my pregnancy automatically became 'high risk' and as such I would require consultant-led care rather than just midwife-led. They pressed me to make sure I get a consultant. I think my final decision is going to be to tell my midwife that, although I'm associated with JWs, I am happy to accept blood if I need it and that I don't wish to be treated any differently from other low-risk pregnancies. Also, that way I hopefully get the kind of birth that I want.

  The big glaring omission was anything to do with preventing the baby from having blood. I expected to be given something to give to the doctor or something to sign saying we didn't wish the baby to have blood under any circumstances. But no, there was no mention at all. So I brought it up. The elder I asked looked really uncomfortable and started rambling, then the other elder stepped in and just said that if anything's wrong with the baby then we're welcome to call them for moral support.

  My husband and I were left with a strong suspision that HLC members have been told not to get involved if a baby needs blood. Possibly to avoid controversy and bad publicity. Obviously most JW parents would fight against blood without any prompting from elders but I think it's interesting that they don't seem willing to get actively involved. Do you think this is a new policy?

  Thanks for the support and advice everyone x