What exactly is a relasionship with God? (page 7)

Phizzy

I don't think it is possible to have a relationship with a fictional character.

Band on the Run

I have the same reaction to the lilies of the field quote. It fine for the lilies of the field. I am human, though, and certainly see misery and if God works at all, it is very mysterious and hidden.

I've had relationships with God. They come and go. My culture (North American) encourages such relationships. It may simply be a way of support through a cultural icon, super duper rock star. Jesus Christ, Super Star. Who are you? What have you sacrificed?

tec

I'm not sure that is the meaning of the parable (lilies of the field and ravens).... seems more like Christ is talking about things that are important to the spirit, as he often did. But even if so, if man destroys the natural habitat of the ravens (takes away all the green and replaces it with concrete); then the ravens die. (maybe they just fly somewhere else, but there are other creatures that we kill off by destroying what nature has provided) If man destroys the land on which good crops can grow... during wars, often on purpose, and through overfarming, or through replacing crop farms with things like coffee to sell for profit over food (and then those profits go to the rich and not the needy), then the people who depended upon that starve unless their fellow man come to their aid.

This world has the means to provide food for all... what we do with the means provided to us is up to us.

Peace,

tammy

Vanderhoven7

Value does not exist independant of mind or minds.

According to the Bible: God values the earth. He designed and created everything from the sub-atomic up. He values His creation; at least that which He declared in the beginning as "good" and "very good".

However not everything has equal to God. God has declared by word and action that some things in creation are more valuable/ desireable than others.

That which is ultimately valued is that which one is willing to give their life for.

Jesus gave His life ...so that we could have an eternal relationship with God.

still thinking

So tec,,,is man MORE powerful than God? How can those starving people focus on their spiritual needs when they are starving? Why doesn't he intervene when people are starving and dying? Sure, lots of damage done by humans. But what about droughts? these cause many of the problems in these countries. Why doesn't god make it rain so they can at least feed themselves? Or why does he cause floods to damage the crops that they do manage to grow despite the drought that he gave them earlier.

Major Famines

Year	Death Tolls	Where it Occurred	Cause
1815	82 000 people	Tambora, Sumbawa	Volcanic Eruption/Tsunami
1845-50	500 000 people	Ireland	Plague of Fungi
1991	250 000 people	Bangladesh	Cyclone and Flood
1742-46	Unknown Death Toll	East India	Drought
1991	50 000 people	Southern Sudan (Africa)	Epidemic of Meningitis

Acts of God?.....weren't these people as valuable as the birds?

Why even give humans diseases like meningitis? How is that taking care of them? His motto appears to be fend for yourselves...not don't worry becuase God will take care of those needs.

tec

Just because people call them 'acts of God' does not make them acts of God.

The world we live in is alive, and is part of a living universe. (not meaning conscious, but living, moving, affecting other parts, places, phenomenon... weather included) All the things in nature come from this living, moving, shifting universe... and if anything were any different, would we have a world capable of sustaining living beings?

This entire world could work together... if one place has a drought, another place could cover the food and water essentials, and vice versa if or when the need is reversed. We might have had this by now if we weren't constantly set back by our man dominating man agenda.

Peace,

tammy

still thinking

Amos 4:7 New Living Translation(©2007)
"I kept the rain from falling when your crops needed it the most. I sent rain on one town but withheld it from another. Rain fell on one field, while another field withered away.

Exodus 9:4 But the LORD will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt, so that no animal belonging to the Israelites will die.'"

Deuteronomy 11:17 Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce, and you will soon perish from the good land the LORD is giving you.

2 Chronicles 7:13 "When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people,

Isaiah 5:6 I will make it a wasteland, neither pruned nor cultivated, and briers and thorns will grow there. I will command the clouds not to rain on it."

Zechariah 14:17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.

Act of God? or not?

Looks to me like he COULD provide rain if he WANTED to.

Your thoughts on what man should do are great, however, man will always dominate man. It's survival of the fittest. And surplussess will never be sent in the way you suggest, it costs too much. No matter how much we would love to do it.

And if everyone lived in the fertile growing areas they would be so overpopulated and polluted I'm guessing that in itself would cause its own problems.

God seems like the great solution to mans problems, but it also seems like wishful thinking to me. Personally, I wish we could send all the excess food that gets thrown away. But it will never happen. Not in my life time anyway.

Internationlal aid helps, and they could do with more of that. But again. what happens when natural disaster occur? No matter how much man tries to correct these problems natural disasters will always do damage that we simply can't battle or keep up with.

At some point, with the population growth the way it is. 7 billion already and growing rapidly. There won't be enough food or water for everyone on the planet...even with the perfect ideology you suggest. There simply won't be enough. Will god provide then? Or will he send pestilence and disease to cull the massess? Is that gods form of population control?

tec

You're quoting OT to me to prove what God is or isn't like? lol :)

But perhaps you are right. Perhaps he could provide rain (or whatever else). That does not mean that the poor and suffering will reap the benefits of it... over the greedy and powerful. Just a hypothetical. But regardless, part of the natural world is cycles of rain, drought, flooding, earthquakes, tidal waves, volcanoes, etc, etc. Tumultous events on a shifting moving earth. It is as it is... I don't know if the physical world, with all of its drawbacks, could be any other way and still support life.

How does it cost too much to send surpluses (I don't mean e x cess food specifically, but surplus food)? To have land set aside to grow food that can be stored and eaten in times of crisis and sent anywhere in the world? Maybe not a five course meal, but enough to live on in times of hardship, certainly. Perhaps the real question is why does it cost so much?

As for overpopulation... that is completely under the control of man. Pestilence and disease tend to come as a natural consequence to that.

Peace,

tammy

still thinking

You're quoting OT to me to prove what God is or isn't like? lol :)

And what is funny about that? Do you discount all of that? Or all of the OT? Or some of the OT? Or do you just not like what it says?

But perhaps you are right. Perhaps he could provide rain (or whatever else). That does not mean that the poor and suffering will reap the benefits of it

Of course they would reap the benefits...they would have water to drink and be able to grow food.

As for overpopulation... that is completely under the control of man. Pestilence and disease tend to come as a natural consequence to that.

Which Man? You? Me? Governments? Who do you think should conntrol that? Man that is dominating man? China tried to control that...look what happened...killing of babies.

How does it cost too much to send surpluses (I don't mean excess food specifically, but surplus food)?

Transportation costs...who would you like to pay for that? Govt?...donations?...growers?...who?

tec

And what is funny about that? Do you discount all of that? Or all of the OT? Or some of the OT? Or do you just not like what it says?

No, its just funny because I make a big deal about looking at Christ to see God... not the OT.

As for the Israelites in the OT or any ancient religion for that matter, when it rained and all was good in nature, they believed God was happy with them. When there was drought or anything bad, they believed it was because God was not happy with them. They had little understanding of science and the natural world, and their writings reflected, at least in part, this understanding. That doesn't make them right. (or even necessarily wrong). But I don't count on that. I count on Christ to show God. Christ never sent a pestilence or plague or drought as punishment. Or even threatened any of those things. He was more concerned with the spiritual, than the natural.

Which Man? You? Me? Governments? Who do you think should conntrol that? Man that is dominating man?

I never commented on who should control that. I said man IS in control of that. It is entirely dependent upon our own decisions. (as a whole... an individual might not have a voice under the roar of the crowd)

Peace,

tammy

What exactly is a relasionship with God?

Major Famines

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