Cognitive Dissonance for Fundamenatlists

by leavingwt 128 Replies latest jw friends

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Sulla: Golly. I had it all wrong:r You really are some kind of hero! Lost your cherished family relationships for deciding to leave the JWs! Who among us could ever question your moral superiority after that? You've earned it, SBC, you've earned it!

    Oh, come on now, Sulla. I'm not comparing my morals to yours nor am I claiming to have outstanding morals. I'm just saying that some of us have stopped letting our actions be guided by fear of a deity who gets his jollies from the smell of burning flesh and the cries of drowning children or of those being mauled by bears. Or perhaps you think I have no room to talk about morals since my compass doesn't tell me which day it's okay to eat fish?

    Sulla: Anyhow, once you ignore your comments that are designed to change the topic, we really are left with my basic claim that everybody here would have merrily sacrificed kids along with everybody else at the time.

    Comments designed to change the topic? You mean like the one below, which was spot on topic, but you ignored because you just don't know these statistics and it helps your assertion to pretend nobody could've ever demonstrated "relatively progressive" thinking?

    SBC: It would've been incredibly difficult to evolve morally under those circumstances. Does that mean not one individual among them fled, defected, or at some point voiced objection?

    ... or this one, which contains a link to peer-reviewed archaeological research entitled Skeletal Remains from Punic Carthage Do Not Support Systematic Sacrifice of Infants...

    SBC: To insist that you know exactly what I or anyone else on this forum would've done in Carthage - even while uncertainty exists as to how prevalent child sacrifice really was there - is decidedly arrogant of you.

    Of course, that doesn't diminish the evidence for ritualistic human sacrifice in numerous ancient religions. I just wanted to point out that you might not have picked up the latest memo on Carthage since you were so fond of referencing it.

    Regardless, I can't make this clearer: you seem to be full of shit with your arrogant certainty. You don't know what Martin Luther King, Jr or Adolph Hitler would've done in a different culture/context. "Maybe", "probably", "likely", and "most likely" are words that even simple-minded folk like me can understand. (To be fair, you make me want to be more conscious of how I put things. Thanks for that.)

    Sulla: One is left to presume guys like you, who after all have been through the crucible of unanswered text messages from cherished family members, would have launched some sort of "occupy Moab" movement and brought the whole thing down.

    Yes, well, I wouldn't expect someone with your impeccable social graces to place much value on genuine relationships with flesh and blood when you have an invisible, omnipotent, miracle-working friend you can talk to at any moment.

    You and your moral vanity really outta get a room.

    So sayeth the fellow with Santorum dribbling down his chin after a vigorous romp with his own intellectually pretentious ego.

    Listen.... ultimately, it's your god I'm mocking, not you. Okay, no. Scratch that. Ultimately, it is you I'm mocking because your god is conveniently absent. But to be totally honest, this whole exchange is really only happening because you were a true douche canoe to NC - who (whom?) I respect - and it seemed rather undeserved.

    Sulla: NC, you make me smile when you are so charmingly clueless. I know a lot of charmingly clueless people and, if I knew you, I bet you'd be my favorite one of all! ...... Is there any point in reminding you that the moral is that you're not supposed to do human sacrifice?.... Probably not, because you have such industrial strength cluelessness.

    So maybe we just got off on the wrong foot, Sulla. Maybe I mistakenly assumed your above post was condescending and spiteful when it was just your socially inept way of flirting.

    Either way, I see that we're reducing this thread to a grade-school playground so I'm just gonna let myself out the door. Have a flipping awesome week!

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Here's a question for Sulla and other Christians... if God told you to kill me, would you?

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    Gah, one last thing...

    [off topic]

    Tammy, I want to apologize for the time I insisted you (or I) would be Muslim if born and raised in Afghanistan. That was arrogant of me. While there's a good statistical probability that it's true (99% Muslim population), nobody can say for sure. I should've at least tempered that statement with "very likely".

    [Back to you, Tom]

  • tec
    tec

    Why thank you, SBC :) I agree.

    (And that was cute)

    if God told you to kill me, would you?

    I will give you the standard "God would not tell me that" because I believe that to be true. But for the sake of argument, I will play along.

    I would not. (I mean, if you were about to push a button that killed a ton of innocent people, then... perhaps) I would ask, respectfully as Abraham did... Lord, how I could do something that is specifically against what you taught me and what your Son showed us all? How can I follow both your rule of mercy over sacrifice; love others; do unto others as I would have them do unto me... and also kill? Would killing someone not go against the law and commands and teaching and e x amples you have set before me? How can I do this thing and still be following you?

    This is how I can trust that he would not ask me to do such a thing. Because it is against His teaching, command, and e x ample. And even it it would be a sin not to obey (it is not a sin to question), love is the greatest command and covers over a multitude of sins.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Tammy: You would make a terrible Jehovah's Witness. <----- Compliment.

    For the Fundamentalist (which I mentioned in the title of this thread), being asked to fulfill a difficult request is the ultimate test of loyalty. If he or she were to cave in and be disobedient, then all of the previous good works are for nothing.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter
    Deuteronomy 7

    1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. [a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

    Deuteronomy 20:16-18

    16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

    Could you question the command? I suppose so. But I can't find this right now, there was a moment when Israel spared the women in a Canaanite city. This greatly angered god, and the women (and girls) were quickly slaughtered by the obedient. So you may question, but you may only choose the correct option.

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    You would make a terrible Jehovah's Witness. <----- Compliment.

    I took it as such :P

    Also, I never answered the question posed by the op, because I knew you were addressing fundamentals. Just answered it cause EP asked it of anyone.

    NC - You and I differ greatly in what we think on this because you look more to the OT to define God. I can't even see that you look at the bible as a whole, because the bible points to Christ. It states that Christ is the image of God and the Truth. So if anyone is looking at the bible as a whole, then they should know to look at Christ alone to know the truth of God. Even though you do not believe, it seems like you share the fundamental outlook on God and Christ as the proper outlook... unless you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of the thread.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Maybe. But Jesus said he was in complete agreement with his father. He was saying this to the jews that knew their history well. So what exactly was Jesus in complete agreement with? Well I have to look at his father to learn the answer to that. That information is predominately in the OT. Now had Jesus said that this was all wrong---then I could see that maybe he came to set things straight. But he didn't. If his father was so slandered, certainly he would have spoke out about it. I don't think that is unreasonable. But no. He did not come to condemn the old ways---they were the right ways for the times. Now he was introducing a new era---sure.

    So if I were to say that I am in total agreement with 400 years of slavery in America, that it was the right thing to do at the time, but now I say from here forward we will no longer have slavery because times have changed---would that be good enough? Afterall, many people suffered and died under the conditions of slavery---sure---but look at all the good that came from it! Plantations and successful farmers. It was good for commerce. We won't do that any more though. It was great while it lasted, but tiimes have changed.

    That is what Jesus has done. He did not condemn the past, he agreed with it. Therefore, I consider this a fair representation of his father.

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    Well I have to look at his father to learn the answer to that.

    But this is backwards. There is no point at all to Christ coming to show us the Truth, if we already had knowledge of that truth.

    Look at more than just the words describing Him. Look at HIM. Look at the things He DID. He served us. He killed no one... he gave life instead. He took no slaves... again, he served us. He condemned no one... he forgave all who sinned against him instead. Even the woman who committed adultery, though the law called for it. He showed mercy over sacrifice.

    And he did condemn many old ways. (moses gave you this law because your hearts were hard... but it was not meant this way from the beginning) He condemned things that the scribes had written. "Woe to you scribes". Why condemn the scribes if everything written is accurate?

    If you want to know God - who He is/what He wants - then you must look through Christ; no one else. Or you won't know Him. (other than those people who do know that God is love, and understand love)

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • tec
    tec

    Also, I am off to work; will be back later. Have a good afternoon :)

    Peace,

    tammy

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