Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One 754 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Tammy...

    adam and eve were created with the ability to sin but being created in God's image they were created with the inclination to NOT sin. (eve's first temptation came from outside it wasn't something that she generated. Just like Jesus, the temptation came from outside (satan) it wasn't something that He generated.) After they were sent out of the garden all of their offspring were born with the inclination to sin.

    That's why God could say in the days of Noah, that every inclination of the heart of man was towards evil.

    love michelle

  • cofty
    cofty

    There was no Adam and Eve. No perfection and no fall.

    Please have the honesty to allow your religious beliefs to be constrained by facts.

  • tec
    tec
    The desire... the anger, the jealousy, the hate... leads one TO sin.
    So how could Adam and Eve be said to be "perfect", if they had an inclination to sin?
    See, that's the problem with the concept of claiming a PERFECT God creating PERFECT mankind and PERFECT spirit beings: perfect cannot bagat imperfection, and ANY deviation from perfection only has a finger pointing back to PERFECT God. How did imperfection sneak into God's "perfect" Universe? You cannot blame it on the humans, or Satan, etc. God doesn't seem so perfect if you do.

    (perhaps you should define perfect)

    A free creature can become anything it desires or chooses. See and desire something that it wants, developing that desire above all other considerations, and sin may follow.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Back to the topic..
    Snare&Racket said: "That animals get cancer and are mauled to death without REAL biblical explanation shows well how man has created religion around the story of ....man, explaining his situation in the universe with no interest in whether that story fits in with for example the animals. The story of adam and eve may explain why we get cancer now to a non skeptical believer, but it does not explain away why monkeys get cancer etc."

  • The Quiet One
  • villagegirl
    villagegirl

    Animals cause each other suffering. Have you ever seen a lion take

    down a live antelope and start eating its guts out while it is still alive

    and its head and brain untouched ? Animals eat other animals. Sorry vegans.

    (and Seven Day Adventists) but this world is full of creatures constantly hunting down

    and eating each other. May be we create reality as some believe. There is a built

    in mecahnism against pain, ( as a three time cancer survivor I speak from experience)

    Serious wounds are sometimes not felt because of shock, blood loss causes loss of

    feeling and you black out. Death is loss of awareness, loss of feeling.

    The universe is spectacular, beautiful, filled with pleasures, and also dreadful.

    Trying to assign blame to a "cause" is futile, why are some people billionaires?

    And some people living in the street ? We seek goodness and want it, thats why

    cute funny kittens are more sought out on the Internet than pornography. True.

    I find men to be "darker" in their thinking, and more attracted to violence, but lately

    I see so many young fathers with babie strapped to their bodies and who are so

    patient and tender with them. I think the world is improving. Getting better.

    I think it will all be OK eventually the paradise we seek will develop because of love.

  • Legacy
    Legacy

    Hi All,

    If someone put you in a secure enviroment, all you knew was, what was in the place..only good, you never ever experienced anything bad, so you don't know what the opposite of good is...so when God said don't eat of this tree because....all they knew was what they had experienced...God never let them experience Bad things, so what did they know ? Yes free will and all, I do understand that, but if you don't know, you don't know. How many witnesses are in this world but have no idea what certain things are, innocent, to a certain degree...I'm not trying to excuse our parents Adam & Eve,but on the other hand, there is another way to look at it...Plus God made a rule & with rules, come laws...so as folks say, don't start none, won't be none. God, didn't want anyone to serve him like a robot...but, I'm not God, could he have thought of another way for them to display free will...Plus, why is God mad at everybody because of 2 people...would he be angry with us if we had a beef with an neighbor but also beefed with the entire family...

    I am an animal lover so I get upset when innocent animals are killed or are sick, they are so helpless...plus the animal kingdom is much more balanced then the human kingdom...survival of the fittest....but I do wonder Why God takes it out on animals...

    God is forgiving....& he is Love....you got to hand it to him for coming up with a back-up plan.....immediately....Hats off to God...

    Just a thought,

    Legacy

  • Monsieur
    Monsieur

    ...Plus, why is God mad at everybody because of 2 people...would he be angry with us if we had a beef with an neighbor but also beefed with the entire family...

    legacy ,

    your very logical question has a very logical answer as well. the entire 'Garden of Eden' account is symbolic, it didnt actually happen (there is no proof it did.)

    the entire account is like a picture that is designed to help you comprehend a very profound 'truth', or fact. (hence the image heavy description of what 'happened' in that 'garden').

    what does it symbolize? a very simple fact. man (collectively) is very lost. There is too much hatred and indifference toward one another. There is a 'fiery sword', an obstacle, between man and 'God' (Perfection and Good).

    If you take the garden of eden account as literal, you can blame God, the Devil, Adam or Eve, none of which makes sense as doing this brings up an interminable list of why's.

    But taken as a symbol, we quickly understand that man collectively is at fault, and thus man alone can rectify this 'evil'.

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Legacy said: ''I am an animal lover so I get upset when innocent animals are killed or are sick, they are so helpless...plus the animal kingdom is much more balanced then the human kingdom...survival of the fittest....but I do wonder Why God takes it out on animals...

    God is forgiving....& he is Love....''

    Cognitive dissonance is kicking in.. Keep thinking, and don't be held back by illusion or fantasy ;)

  • adamah
    adamah

    TEC said-

    Talking snake... is actually a seraph (described as flying, fiery serpent/ aka spirit being/ aka Satan, the Adversary, the ancient dragon)

    Distinction without difference? Need I remind everyone that seraphs don't actually exist, and that also explains why they cannot talk (you have to actually exist in order to talk).

    Monsieur said-

    If you take the garden of eden account as literal, you can blame God, the Devil, Adam or Eve, none of which makes sense as doing this brings up an interminable list of why's.

    OR, you can realize that it's merely an ancient story, no more real that the talking animals in say, Aesop's Fables.

    Don't waste your life on it as if it's actually true, anymore than talking foxes and crows talk of "truths" and reveal handy-dandy useful aphorisms (eg "look before you leap").

    Adam

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