Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One 754 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    If you do not believe that God exists, you should not even be here. This is not for you.This is for theists. This discussion is moot for you. And if that is the case then the question asked on this thread is a rhetorical one, trying to show that God does not exist because he allows evil.

    If you think that you should be able to ask a question without any chance of a dissenting opinion then an internet forum is not for you. Showing that a creator god is evil doesn't prove that it doesn't exist, it shows that your position is not internally logical if you are claiming that a creator god is omnibenevolent.

  • cofty
    cofty
    In other words, a fish is fish, a mammal is a mammal and humans did not evolve from some aquatic species - budbayview

    Except both the fossil record and our genomes prove otherwise.

    Have you heard of Tiktaalik for example?

    The rest of your post is just evidence-free assertions. You say you have studied biological evolution but your post shows no evidence of it. It is an argument from personal incredulity. You can't imagine how certain features could evolve without a designer, you don't want to do the hard work of researching it - therefore god.

    Which books on evolution have you studied?

  • cofty
    cofty
    I only have over 200 GB of stored knowledge.
    5. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? - whenindoubt

    Really? Did you actually claim to be knowledgeable on evolution and then ask that facile question?

    I might get to the rest of your fallacies later, but you could answer all of them yourself with half an hour's research.

    Edited to add - I cannot make sense of your post. Is it a copy-paste from your "200GB of stored knowledge"? In some cases you have included the answers to the questions and in other cases you don't. Very bizarre.

  • WheninDoubt
    WheninDoubt

    Really? Did you actually claim to be knowledgeable on evolution and then ask that facile question?

    No Cofty, I believe your ignorance is worse than mine. Pretense accumulated out of your own hatred.

    That has blinded you to the simple facts on life. You have the last word. Impress your readers.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Whenindoubt - Please clarify.

    Are you seriously asking those questions or not?

    It's difficult to believe anybody would be so uninformed as to think they are reasonable questions. In some cases you have pasted the answers and in others you don't.

    Did you copy-paste but just messed up or are you actually proposing some of those questions are serious challenges to evolution?

    I could answer all of them thoroughly if you want but its a waste of time and effort if you aren't asking them.

    By the way please stop with the ad hominem and stick to facts. It makes you look silly.

  • cofty
    cofty

    To be specific you include responses in questions 1 & 6 but not to the others.

    Did you intend to do that?

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    When in doubt,

    I am unclear if you read through what you posted since half your post seems to say that you don't agree with evolution and then you have a big section that supports it.

    1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law.

    As your post shows in science a theory is something that has been repeatedly shown to be true. Evolution is a fact, it was proven by Darwin and there has not been a single scientific discovery that has undermined the simple fact that speciation is caused by natural selection.

    2. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest.

    That is exactly how natural selection works, the ones that survive to reproduce are the fittest. What constitutes fittest depends on the environment. There is only one claim here, we can say something is fit if it survives long enough to procreate, that is not circular.

    3. Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created.

    It is eminently falsifiable, look up Haldane and pre-cambrian rabbits. Every scientific study since in a range of fields backs up natural selection. Actually we have observed natural selection, there are number of scientific studies that show evolution in action. Look up the nylon bug, a bug with a unique ability never before seen (eating a man-made substance) and found in our lifetime.

    4. The disagreements among even evolutionary biologists show how little solid science supports evolution.

    Like what disagreements? If you include the name Behe in any example I will laugh!

    5. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

    Humans and apes descended from a common ancestor, that ancestor is no longer around.

    6. Evolution cannot explain how life first appeared on earth.

    Evolution is the study of speciation and adaptation of existing life, abiogenesis is the study of how life started. Evolution by definition cannot explain how life started.

    7. Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance.

    Natural selection is not the same thing as chance. The clue is in the name.

    8. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and multicellular life could not have evolved from protozoa.

    The second law says systems lose energy, there is nothing to stop you adding anergy to create a more ordered system. The sun in our system adds energy every single day. Think of it like a car, there is a limit to how far you can travel before you have to put more energy back into the car in the form of petrol.

    9. Mutations are essential to evolution theory, but mutations can only eliminate traits. They cannot produce new features.

    See the nylon bug, a new feature caused by guess what? A mutation!

    10. Natural selection might explain microevolution, but it cannot explain the origin of new species and higher orders of life.

    That is precisely what evolution and natural selection prove, that time plus selection pressure causes speciation. See ring species if you want an interesting example of how speciation works. The 'higher orders of life' presumably mean humans? I can provide examples if you want to define what you mean.

  • WheninDoubt
    WheninDoubt

    Factual conclusion. Man already knows how everything works.

    Simple calculation:

    A. y = mx + b

    A.

    B.

    B.

    C. C.



    Without intervention of any kind. No hacking, no editing from the owner. Let me know when A. transformed to B. or when it existt from C. However keep in mind that A. already has a foundation.

    Let me know when this miracle or glory happens. Hopefully, I will still be around.

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    Whenindoubt,

    That isn't a factual conclusion, Nobody has claimed that humans know everything. Stating the bloody obvious doesn't mean that we know nothing or that widely proven science is not factual.

    That might be a simple calculation but without you defining anything it's pretty meaningless.

    BTW I posted a pretty comprehensive reply to your previous post but you have ignored it, that is very rude.

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    Whenindoubt,

    Your chemical compound is interesting but I am unclear how on earth you think it supports your case other than highlighting the fact that humans are chemical factories?

    Still I am sure Lance Armstrong or the US postal cycling team might be interested in it.

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