Childbirth, A Protection For Women (Per Paul)... How?

by AGuest 212 Replies latest jw friends

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  james_woods

  I never understood this verse even as a witness:

  1) - it is not scriptural (except for this one reference) to say that anyone is "saved" by childbirth. If they were, are non-christian women "saved" by childbirth? Are "christian" women immune to being disfellowshipped because they are pregnant? It makes no sense in a symbolic sense.

  2) - at the time this was written, and for centuries afterward, childbirth was the greatest health danger women and babies faced. So, taken literally, the scripture is absolutely false.

  The only thing I could ever figure out from it was that the misogynist Paul of Tarsus was saying that women in the congregation should be kept barefoot and pregnant so they could not be opening their mouths - while the men did the talking. But that also makes no sense - pregnant and nursing women can talk just as much and as often as non-pregnant women.
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  ziddina

  "Conspiracy law is often criticized b/c you can get a conviction with less evidence than the actual crime. ...."

  Interesting...

  Thanks, Band on the Run.
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  ziddina

  "pregnant and nursing women can talk just as much and as often as non-pregnant women. ..."

  Well, not the ones whose babies have already arrived....

  They're too busy feeding and washing and putting to bed and cleaning up and doing laundry....

  With absolutely no help from hubby, in most cases - especially since we're hypothetically talking about Jewish customs at the time of Imperial Roman rule over Judea...
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  N.drew

  1 Timothy 2:15 refers to Eve. She sinned. The soul that is sinning will die. She did not die before she was able to bring forth children. "She will be saved" means she was saved.

  heal, be made whole.

  From a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. Deliver or protect (literally or figuratively) -- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

  http://concordances.org/greek/4982.htm
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  Band on the Run

  There are so many hot topics in the Scriptures. They are discussed to this day even on television. Yet we are preached to concerning this odd scripture. If Adam was not deceived by Satan, his guilt is much larger than Eve's guilt. Why anyone is guilty of eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is more troublesome. Adam had not eaten the fruit before he made his decision to eat the fruit so he had zero knowledge of good and evil. Is it condemning a person for being born blind. Such a God is to be avoided.
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  AGuest

  One last thought, dear one (peace to you all!):

  Christ himself is recorded to have said "Woe! to the pregnant woman and those suckling a baby". Why would he choose out pregnant women/post-partum women versus, say other women? Because once the full brunt of the "tribulation" came down upon them, even pregnant women/post-partum women would not be safe. UNTIL that time, the LAW kept them safe... from persecution/deliverance up by the JEWS.

  But time was coming when even the Law wouldn't act as a restraint... because the ROMANS didn't give a HOOT about the Law... or any Jew. Any "christian" who stayed in the city would have constituted themselves less a "christian" (because those had been warned to flee... and those who were obedient DID flee) and more a Jew.

  Paul was trying to protect them from the Romans - HE was a Roman... and so didn't fully understand what was to come at the hands OF the Romans. He knew, though, what was already occuring at the hands of the JEWS... and what could forestall it... because he was once of those who engaged IN delivering up/murdering of christians. For those who are thinking too much about that, remember Stephen.

  So, now, I've shared what I received. Please, continue discussing your opinion as to the truth (or untruth) of it, as I take no offense; however, there is truly nothing more for me to share on it at this point.

  Again, peace to you all... truly!

  Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  Band on the Run

  Paul was not a Roman. His family were merely prominent enough to garner Roman citizenship, Many foreigners were gifted with Roman citizenship. Paul self-identified as a Jew until his conversion. After his conversion he still used the Jewsih laws as a reference point. Jewish law would not matter one iota to a Roman.

  A Roman is someone who was born or who has family ties to Rome, the imperial city.
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  EntirelyPossible

  You know, and have said, Shelby, that we can't trust the bible because of the false stylus of the scribes. We can't trust that quote from Jesus.
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  N.drew

  Why would he choose out pregnant women/post-partum women versus, say other women?

  Because it is a God given right that the mother protect the life of the child before her own.

  How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Matthew 24:19

  When I had my own personal tribulation I understood what that meant because it would have been impossible or near impossible for me to give the child the nurturing it needed while I was undergoing it.
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  james_woods

  I still have not seen any good reason why this statement (supposedly by Paul) makes any sense whatsoever - except in a sort of sideways sense of telling women to be quiet and stay pregnant to make sure they stay quiet.