Regulate Marijuana Like Wine (interesting article)

by sabastious 87 Replies latest jw friends

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    DGP I don't profess higher morality than you. Once again you are generalizing. I am talking about the singular moral/ethic of personal responsibility. I believe that when it is applied in it's unadulterated form that good things always come. Right now, with prohibition in place, personal responsbility is hindered at it's source: the choosers. There should be a way to remove weed from the black market's shelves and place it, rightfully, into the hands of the people. I do not profess to be able to provide solutions to everything that comes from Marijuana legalization, but I feel that it needs to be done and that the risk outweighs the reward. However I would never enforce that opinion on someone else. The only reason I am speaking out is because I see a need, and if that need isn't there then my words will fade into the wind.

    -Sab

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    DGP, did u not notice in your post that it was a refrance to violence and illegal drug traffickers? Are manufacturers of asprin drug traffickers? Also what the heck does selling fruit in El Salvador do with legalization of MJ?

    Also you make the point that dipensaries are just a front for "bad people". What is your basis for this? I don't see any of the dispansary owners in Los Angeles as anything more than businessmen. As in any industry, there will be bad eggs and they eventually get caught. Your argument that they are ALL bad people who will infiltrate the cities and use their money for corruption is just looney.

    Regulate it. This way we know of all the so called bad people in our neighborhoods. Background checks, licensing, restrictions on locations just like that other so called safe drug, alcohol, etc etc

    Tax it. Just like lettuce, hand guns, cars and anything else sold.

    For all the real damage people are causing themselves with alcohol, meth, ands other drugs legal or not, this realatively benign plant that grows as easily as your lawn seems to be getting way to much attention that can be spent in other areas of illegal drug control. If you want to end violence, perhaps u should jump on thread about crowds gatting maced for trying to buy a pair of shoes

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    So many people know that they must not drive under the influence. Just how many accidents happen every year because of drunk driving? Granted, the laws in place cannot prevent those accidents. Would it be better if we did away with traffic laws regarding drunk driving?

    What if the federal government made us all turn our cars into cubes and made us take public transportation? Do you know how many lives that would save? Countless. Why don't we do it? It's because we, as a civilization, have chosen (by buying cars and driving them) that we feel that the loss of life is worth it. We know that those deaths are not typically imposed upon people. Driving is not just a privilege, it's a skill. I can't tell you how many accidents I have avoided because I strive to be the best driver I can be. It's my choice to continue to learn how to be a good driver, father, husband etc. The less power you give the people the less they have to work with.

    -Sab

  • Morbidzbaby
    Morbidzbaby

    I'm in the "legalize it" camp. For someone to state in this day and age that marijuana has no medical benefits or that those benefits cannot be proven, baffles me. It truly does! Talk to someone with Multiple Sclerosis, Fibromyalgia, etc who smokes weed. Ask how their pain is since they started. It's not just DURING the high that it eases the pain, but afterward as well. Other benefits include:

    Weed can be an effective treatment for seizures because it is a muscle relaxant.

    I think one of the most popular medicinal uses has been for glaucoma. This is well-documented and the results of use by patients cannot be refuted.

    Slowing down tumor growth...that's right...weed actually could prevent or assist in fighting cancers. It doesn't cause lung cancer like cigarettes as has been thought.

    Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and it's neurological symptoms are slowed.

    Marijuana is effective against migraine headaches. In fact, since it's been legalized medicinally in some states, doctors have found a giant decrease in incidents of migraines with patients who experienced them formerly.

    Tourette's Syndrome, along with it's tics and spasms, is slowed with the use of marijuana by Tourette's patients.

    Other issues that are made better by marijuana include: IBS and Crohn's Disease, Alzheimer's, ADHD, PMS, depression, anxiety, etc.

    Marijuana is a "miracle drug" for many. The reasons it is illegal are simple, IMHO. It's about money and ignorance. I'm sure the government knows of these benefits, but thanks to programs like DARE and the media, the public in general is grossly ill-educated about them. This causes fear. Weed is dubbed a "gateway drug". But...weren't cigarettes called that as well? I also think that the government is looking at the revenue they would possibly lose if people continued selling weed on the street. Just like cigarettes, eventually people will try to roll their own to save money. And it's a hell of a lot easier to grow weed in a flower pot in an apartment in the city than it is to grow tobacco. Not only that, but drug companies would be up in arms...look at all the disorders that the public wouldn't NEED them to treat anymore! How many hundreds of thousands of people would just self-medicate with weed instead of going to the doctor for a prescription? I know I did! I had severe depression and before I went to see a doctor, I smoked weed. Once my supply was cut off (ie. I was living with my parents), I HAD to go to the doctor for meds. But before that, I was fine with the pot.

    Tobacco is a drug, yet it's controlled through taxation and age limitation. Yet it has ZERO benefits and is, in fact, a killer. Alchohol is a drug of sorts and is controlled the same way. Sure, people are irresponsible with it, but by making it completely illegal, that would be taking away a person's right to CHOOSE what is okay for them and what isn't. Weed should be regulated like alcohol, IMO. A person is allowed only so much THC in their system before they get into legal trouble, just like the blood alcohol level.

    Personally, I think that ANY substance that has medicinal benefit should be available to the public, even if it needs to be regulated.

  • Judge Dread
    Judge Dread

    Rationalize legalizing that shit any way you want to.

    Medical, schmedical, it's all about getting high.

    JDW

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Nobody ever got stoned and started a war.

    Personally I believe reefer was brought here by the gods about 50,000 years ago.....

    Spectacularly rich assholes like William Randolph Hearst demonized it line to their pockets with more mammon because they can never get enough.

  • Lore
    Lore
    We have made significant progress in fighting drug use and drug trafficking in America. Now is not the time to abandon our efforts.

    I'd almost call this the 'sunk cost fallacy'. . . we've already spent so much time and money fighting it, it would be a waste to make it legal now.

    This ignores the fact that, if there's nothing wrong with the drug it SHOULDN'T be illegal. It also ignores the fact that, no matter how well we are doing, it's still an unending expense. There will never come a time when the drug war is 'won' and we can stop dumping money into it.

    Fact 2: A balanced approach of prevention, enforcement, and treatment is the key in the fight against drugs.

    I agree. I think we just might disagree on what counts as 'balanced'.

    Fact 3: Illegal drugs are illegal because they are harmful.

    That's not a 'fact', it's an opinion. Which many disagree with. Marijuana is, quite simply, NOT harmful. At least no more harmful than alchohol or eating twinkies. And actually if you don't smoke it, then it's less hamrful than cigarettes.

    There is a growing misconception that some illegal drugs can be taken safely.

    But it's not a misconception if it's true. Some illegal drugs CAN be taken safely.
    Marijuana for example. Heck even ecstacy. They're dangerous if you overdose, but that's like saying it's a misconception that vicodin can be taken safely. . . of COURSE it can, and it can also be taken unsafely.

    Fact 4: Smoked marijuana is not scientifically approved medicine. Marinol, the legal version of medical marijuana, is approved by science.

    Since when does a substance have to be scientifically approved as medicine before it's legal? Are twinkies a scientifically approved medicine? Are they illegal? Some people might want to take marijuana for non-medical reasons. You know, like alchohol.

    Do we just ban everything until it's proven useful?

    Also. . . can we please outlaw homeopathy and acupunctue? They at least have been proven NOT to be scientifically viable.

    Fact 5: Drug control spending is a minor portion of the U.S. budget. Compared to the social costs of drug abuse and addiction, government spending on drug control is minimal.

    That depends on what drug we are talking about. Meth? I agree completely! It should not be legal.

    Fact 6: Legalization of drugs will lead to increased use and increased levels of addiction. Legalization has been tried before, and failed miserably.

    Duh.

    Same applies to cigarettes and alchohol and driving and TV and every other lesiure activity.

    If it's legal, more people will try it. IF you made TV watching illegal everywhere but alaska, I'm sure alaska would have a higher rate of habitual television watchers than elsewhere. IF it's not harmful, why should we care that more people try it?

    Fact 7: Crime, violence, and drug use go hand-in-hand. . . Six times as many homicides are committed by people under the influence of drugs, as by those who are looking for money to buy drugs.

    That's a bizzare stastic and I'm not sure why they used it. But anyway, it's not suprising that people who associate with drug-dealers are more likely to commit crimes. Drugs are illegal, so currently, only people who are willing to break the law will use them.

    If owning a car where illegal, then I'm sure people who owned cars would be more likely to commit crimes.

    Fact 8: Alcohol has caused significant health, social, and crime problems in this country, and legalized drugs would only make the situation worse.

    Change that too "Alcohol MISUSE has caused significant health, social, and crime problems in this country." and you'll be on the right track.

    A group of guys sitting at home watching the superbowl and drinking alchohol has not cause ANY noticable health, social or crime problems in this country.
    Driving while drunk or on the job though is different.

    Drugs are the same. If you are even slightly responsible you won't cause any problems.

    Fact 9: Europe’s more liberal drug policies are not the right model for America.

    Who the heck is writing these unsupported opinions and labeling them 'facts' ?

    Fact 10: Most non-violent drug users get treatment, not jail time.

    Not sure why this fact is listed. . . Are we supposed to be happy that we are wasting money paying for them to get treatment they don't need instead of paying for them to rot in jail for something that doesn't matter?

    Truth is, only about 5 percent of inmates in federal prison are there because of simple possession.

    Why is the word 'only' in that sentence? 5 percent of federal prison inmates are there just because that had drugs? Not for selling them or misusing them. Just HAVING them. ?

    5% is a lot!

    And that's assuming that statistic is true.

    Try this one on for size: "The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges." http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

    22% !

    So almost a quarter of the prison population is there because we have decided that we don't like people having drugs.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. A Spanish saying goes (sort of) like this: "You give opinions about the fair depending on how you fare on it".

    I think I made it clear that my point of view is not that of an American citizen discussing why he or she would legalize marijuana. My point of view is that of a person who would have no say in the matter, but would feel its effects. Ultimately, what I say or not say regarding this issue will not matter. I don't vote in the United States.

    Sabastious, I don't think you're immoral, and I don't think you're claiming any higher morals either. English being my second language, I may sometimes not make myself understood. I wasn't talking about your own personal morals. But I would question the morals of someone who thinks that his smoking a joint, at this time, does not have any criminal consequences elsewhere. I would also question this person's sense of responsibility. Forgive me, but I don't think that anyone who is only wanting to get high stops to think for a while about the questionable characters and means whereby the drug reaches him.

    By the way, this is not a one-sided thing for me. I also question the morals of the small farmer who works picking coca leaves, for example. He knows full well what the leaves will be used for. I also question the morals of the man who sends the drug to the United States and thinks that, after all, they want the drug and he is just "meeting a need". Whatever drug it is.

    What happened: I was not talking about "any" street vendor. Please bear with me.

    My general point, and I hope this time I make it clear, is that, when the legalization of marijuana is discussed, people are deluded into thinking that they will be taking business away from the bad guys who are currently running it. In my humble opinion, if you have a business that gives you lots and lots and lots of money, and you see someone trying to take it away from you, you won't just wait and see how the money goes elsewhere. You will try to keep that business in your hands; and if you're used to extorting, and killing, and kidnapping, you will certainly use those means to fight the competition.

    My point was also that the people who currently run the marijuana business have other businesses, namely cocaine, designer drugs, prostitution, extorting people who want to enter the United States illegally, killing them after they have drained their every cent, kidnapping. The legalization of marijuana will only give them freedom to operate as a legally established operation while they maintain their other businesses. Sorry, but I would think anyone would see that.

    They are already extorting businesses in Central America. That is where the street vendor comes in, What Happened. Not "EVERY" street vendor. But some "nice" women whose real role is to keep an eye on legally established businesses which are undergoing extortion, in case the owner has such funny ideas as closing the shop or calling the Police.

    In Guatemala and El Salvador, if you drive a bus and you refuse to pay "the fee", you're dead, man. That is the reality. And the legalization of marijuana will give THAT PEOPLE a legal business from which they will derive money to fund their "other" activities, which, by the way, you guys do not bear.

    As to dispensaries, they can be opened, all right, to legally dispense marijuana to sick people. Or to people who just want to use it for their recreation after its use is approved. And who says that the bad guys can't extort those dispensaries and take control of them? That is what I said. I never said that dispensaries are fronts for anything. I did say that they WOULD become fronts. Sorry; I don't think traffickers would just do nothing and just would let the business be taken away from them.

    Suppose, for a second, that I am a drug dealer and I sell ecstasy and coke. I notice that marijuana becomes legal, and I expect some of my customers to use marijuana instead of a drug that would send them to jail. Meaning I would make less money. Would I fight against that? Would I try to go where the money were?

    Let me point out that many advocates of the legalization of marijuana claim that the war on drugs "can't" be won. That means that the Police can't win against those guys. So, I don't want to hear that the Police would control that.

    I think that the point I am making is a simple one. If someone smokes marijuana in his own home, that is hardly my business. But, if legalizing his habit results in my having to coexist with such criminals, then I am concerned. Not that my opinion matters, right?

  • darthfader
    darthfader

    Lore, great rebuttals to the post/link I had... thanks!

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    If you legalize it, more money for Big Pharma, less for the CIA/Pentagon... you gotta keep the balance. Otherwise you might come up short in the Black Ops Dept.

    Oh what the heck no one questions what they do anyway, like the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS that go missing from the Pentagon's budget......

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